MacTel CS3 Problems.
by Todd Jaspers
on
Apr 1, 2008 at 8:57:22 pm
I was wondering who is having problems with AE CS3 on MACTEL. I am running a brand new 10.5.2 8 core Intel Mac with 8 gigs of Ram and AE CS3 is so so slow?
It freezes a lot and it forces me to force quit, and when I start doing complicated graphics it flat out crashes.
My theory is that Adobe hates Apple and its not omptimized for multicore multi-threading. Anyone hating CS3 on Mactel. I sure do. Adobe Blow..
Re: MacTel CS3 Problems. by Miklos Philips on Apr 1, 2008 at 9:32:22 pm
I have a Quad Core Pro Mac with 7 GB of Ram. This used to happen to me too until I played with the memory settings in AE Prefs and got it tweaked to a point where its rock solid. Maximum Memory Usage at 75%; Maximum RAM Cache Size : 70%; Enable Disc Cache and set "Maximum Disk Cache Size to "500 MB" ; also press the "Clean Database and Cache" button on the bottom to do just that...
Also try enabling/ disabling Open GL. I recommend the same for you. That might help.
...............................
Point Zero Pictures
Re: MacTel CS3 Problems. by Todd Jaspers on Apr 1, 2008 at 9:54:17 pm
Thanks Miklos,
I will play with the memory settings, what about Open GL? I have tried all the settings and haven't noticed any difference as to when it does and doesn't crash. I have a NVIDIA 8800 for mac shouldn't I have OpenGL enabled? Interactive or Always On?
BTW. I do get this error All the time..
"After Effects error: AE_OpenGL: Failed to render fragment.
Re: MacTel CS3 Problems. by Darby Edelen on Apr 1, 2008 at 10:25:48 pm
[Todd Jaspers]"Anyone hating CS3 on Mactel. I sure do. Adobe Blow.. "
We have 3 people running AE CS3 on Mac Pros here at the office. One of them is an 8-core and the other 2 are 4-core. Nobody experiences the issues you mentioned above.
Can you give more information on your settings in AE? Memory & Cache? Make sure you're not running under Rosetta (get info on the AE app in the Finder)?
Darby Edelen Designer Left Coast Digital Santa Cruz, CA
Re: MacTel CS3 Problems. by Todd Jaspers on Apr 1, 2008 at 11:53:19 pm
Hey thanks for all your help. I have another major prob. Everytime I bring in a Quicktime and clip it in a comp, NO RETIMING or anything, it keeps adding extra frames. Like every 3 seconds, I get a frame repeated twice. I am pulling my hair out trying to figure this out. Obviously in other programs, like SHAKE these quicktimes don't have the extra frames, only in AE.
What is going on? Everything is set for frames in AE and all my footage and comps are 23.98. Is this a bug? Or my settings...
Re: MacTel CS3 Problems. by Darby Edelen on Apr 2, 2008 at 12:06:39 am
[Todd Jaspers]"What is going on? Everything is set for frames in AE and all my footage and comps are 23.98. Is this a bug? Or my settings... "
It would be helpful to know whether these files are already 23.976, or if you're removing pulldown in AE. Also, what codec are you using? The more information you can provide the more likely we'll be able to offer a suggestion.
Darby Edelen Designer Left Coast Digital Santa Cruz, CA
Re: MacTel CS3 Problems. by Todd Jaspers on Apr 2, 2008 at 12:21:03 am
These are all rendered at 23.98 from another AE Station running 6.5, they are rendered to Quicktime PNG+ at 23.98, all the comps on all AE Stations in our studio and all rendering is done only at 23.98. Those quicktimes when checked in APPLE SHAKE, do not have the extra frames. Only in After Effects.
No pull down adde or removed, just putting it into a 23.98 comp. I am just clipping the heads and tails of these quicktime files and re-rendering to TAGRA sequence and gettting extra frames.
It is something that is just happening in AE, if I open the quicktime file from the AE file folder and it opens it in the standalone quicktime program, the extra frame is not there, but as soon as I hold option key and open the same exact quicktime in the AE window it will start adding the extra frames when I frame through it..
Everything is 23.98 across the board. Quicktime, Interp, Comps, but my renders all have extra frames..
Re: MacTel CS3 Problems. by Darby Edelen on Apr 2, 2008 at 3:35:54 pm
The codec you're using and the workflow sound good, so I'm not quite sure what might be going wrong. I can do a good job guessing though! Perhaps it is a frame rate mismatch somewhere, do you get regularly repeating frames and are they always the same frames?
Darby Edelen Designer Left Coast Digital Santa Cruz, CA
Re: MacTel CS3 Problems. by Kevin Camp on Apr 2, 2008 at 3:42:30 pm
24p is actually 23.976fps.... in ae if you are working in 24p, use 23.976fps for the comp and render settings. for some reason many nle's (and apple products) round it (in name only) to 23.98fps, but they are actually 23.976fps.
you may want to check the interpret footage settings (select the clip, then choose file>interpret footage>main) for the clips you are having problems with and make sure that they are interpreted as 23.976.
Re: MacTel CS3 Problems. by Todd Jaspers on Apr 2, 2008 at 5:38:49 pm
Hey All,
I tried doing that. I tried, 23.98fps, comps and interp. I tried straight 24pfs, and I tried 23.976fps. On each one I interpreted as the frame rate and made all the comps that frame rate. All did the same thing.
BTW, I don't have this problem in 6.5, I tested that yesterday. Only in CS3 8.0.2
I thought it might be a codec thing, but I tried it on 3 codecs so far.
I think its a BUG, its doing a pulldown thing for no reason. Don't want to spend all day figuring out Adobe's mistakes, so right now I am trying to find a work around. But wish I knew what the heck was going on...
Re: MacTel CS3 Problems. by Kevin Camp on Apr 2, 2008 at 6:09:20 pm
let's go back... the files you are having a problem with were rendered from ae6.5 at 23.98. were those purely animation, or did they have footage?
if they were purely animation, can you go back and set those comps to 23.976 and render them as 23.976 progressive? then take a look at those in cs3, making sure the footage is interpreted as 23.976, no pulldown/separate fields and the comp frame rate matches the new footage.
if you had footage in the ae6.5 comp, then make sure that that footage is correctly interpreted (i'll assume it is 24p, no pulldown) 23.976 and no separate fields/pulldown. then make sure the comp is set to 23.976 and render as 23.976 no fields/puldown. take that to cs3, making sure the footage is interpreted correctly and the comp has the same frame rate and see if you see a problem.
if you still see a problem, then i guess there is a cs3 bug, but i haven't seen it.... yet.
Re: MacTel CS3 Problems. by Todd Jaspers on Apr 2, 2008 at 6:22:49 pm
But can't you only render to 23.98 from After Effects? In my quicktime settings for video output the defacto standard is 23.98. I can do custom settings I suppose. When I get a free sec I will try that..
Re: MacTel CS3 Problems. by Todd Jaspers on Apr 2, 2008 at 7:32:32 pm
yeah, this is a problem for After Effects, not having any problems with Final Cut Pro, don't know why I would need to check the files in Final Cut Pro??
Re: MacTel CS3 Problems. by Kevin Camp on Apr 2, 2008 at 10:32:15 pm
you wouldn't need to check the files in fcp, but if the footage came from fcp, it is 23.976fps, even though fcp calls it 23.98fps. so in ae you should interpret it as 23.976 and use comps with the frame rate of 23.976...
if you were taking your effect footage back to fcp (or any software to use as 24p), you would also render it as 23.976, not 23.98.
by not keeping a consistent framerate, you may be getting duplicate frames...
Re: MacTel CS3 Problems. by Darby Edelen on Apr 2, 2008 at 10:06:24 pm
[Todd Jaspers]"But can't you only render to 23.98 from After Effects? In my quicktime settings for video output the defacto standard is 23.98. I can do custom settings I suppose. When I get a free sec I will try that.. "
You can render to any frame rate you want =O Specify the frame rate of the rendered file in the Render Settings, generally you'd want to leave it on "Use Comp's Frame Rate."
Darby Edelen Designer Left Coast Digital Santa Cruz, CA
Re: MacTel CS3 Problems. by Todd Jaspers on Apr 3, 2008 at 12:20:13 am
I know that you can import into FCP and and I know that FCP is 23.98. I also know that you can render 23.976 from the Quicktime settings. What I am trying to do is find the bug in my after effects.
My comment about 23.976 out of AE was that if I have to do it every time I render. Its kinda a hassle. I should be able to do everything at 23.98 across the board. From 3D to Film. From 2k Cineon film scans to pixel vision, from Discreet Smoke online to FCP. Doing a workflow that is 23.976 in After Effects kinda blows.
Re: MacTel CS3 Problems. by Kevin Camp on Apr 3, 2008 at 7:51:27 pm
what i'm trying to say is that 23.98 is in name only, it is not the actual frame rate of the footage. the actual frame rate is 23.976 fps.
kind of like in construction a 2x4 isn't actually 2 inches by 4 inches, it's 1.5" x 3.5" but they call it a two-by-four anyway.
for some reason apple decided to call the ntsc 24p frame rate 23.98 rather than the actual 23.976...
the 24p frame rate in ntsc is 23.976, the math won't work otherwise, and you will get either dropped frames or duplicate frames if you use other frame rates. if you work with 24p footage, you need to work in 23.976. fcp and other apple products just call it 23.98, but they mean 23.976, and they need it to be 23.976. and i'm thinking more and more that this at least part of your problem.
Re: MacTel CS3 Problems. by Todd Jaspers on Apr 4, 2008 at 12:57:17 am
Hey lets end the 23.98/23.976 talk. I figured out the bug, and it is a bug. Has nothing to do with 23.98 and 23.976 at all.
here it its..
If I render proxy 1/2 res of a composition it doubles the top layers frames.
I figured it out by making a composition, add an adjustment layer and put a frame counter on that layer. Take that comp and render 1/2 proxy res. You will see the frame counter double its numbers while the animation in the bg still moves.
Re: MacTel CS3 Problems. by Darby Edelen on Apr 4, 2008 at 12:55:28 am
[Todd Jaspers]"Doing a workflow that is 23.976 in After Effects kinda blows."
Not to burst your bubble, but either your workflow all around is 23.976 or you have already blown it.
The composition presets in AE use the most commonly proper frame rates. If you change any to be different because you think they are wrong, then you are probably causing your footage (and yourself) unnecessary harm.
If you are using the proper 23.976 frame rate in your composition, then you shouldn't need to change anything when you render. AE should automatically render at the composition's frame rate (unless you're adding a pulldown on render).
The difference between 23.976 and 23.98 (assuming that it is actually running at 23.98 instead of round up the 23.976 value) is 4 frames out of every 1000 seconds, so I'm hesitant to suggest that this is the sole reason you're having trouble... But you can never rule anything out until the problem is solved.
Darby Edelen Designer Left Coast Digital Santa Cruz, CA
Re: MacTel CS3 Problems. by Pierre Jasmin on Apr 5, 2008 at 5:00:53 pm
THERE IS A BUG IN AE for ever WHICH I WILL TRY TO EXPLAIN HERE + workaround
If the footage comes from Avid, Premiere, FCP etc
I have seen this problem:
In Frame Rate select [x] conform to frame rate and type in exact values
23.976023976
and paste same value in
comp settings FPS
23.976023976
or 29.97002997002997 etc for that matter
These periodic fractions comes from the analog days where there was no floating point in hardware, so video engineers had to represent such things exactly using "rational" numbers (an integer over an integer)
29.97 comes from 30000/1001 (try it in your calculator)
60000/1001 is 59.94005994005994...
24000/1001 is 23.9760239760...
That looks like not much but it can be enough to make some fields "fall" on the wrong frame
Actually importing 59.94005994005994 as Premiere spits out in field project and setting a comp to FPS 59.94 in AE comp settings where you would drop such footgae will actually duplicate each field in AE (the second field will fall like at 0.4999 or something instead of 0.5 or over so will also be returned as the same field as 0.0)
Note sometimes AE abbreviates 29.970 to cue you it's actually 29.97002997002997
Re: MacTel CS3 Problems. by Scott Robert on Aug 18, 2008 at 2:19:32 am
I was having the same problem here with the 23.98 fps. In FCP, I would see duplicate frames rendered from AE. If I open the media in quicktime, there's no dup frames. It only shows in FCP. Weird.
After reading this post, I set the comp fps to 23.976 and it worked for me. I have no duplicate frames. No bugs here.
