Help with viewing huge file..
by Adam Margolis
on
Jan 29, 2008 at 10:36:30 am
Before i post this i want to make it clear that i have great respect for creative cow and i know that someone here will have a solution.
I recently adapted 8 years of digital art experience into AE (using the advanced compositing dvd) and am currently working on a project very important to me.
I need to create an hour long series of animations which is being projected (with 4 projectors) onto a 20 foot long screen.
My approach to this was to create the screen in AE first and i had intended on simply adding in the graphics and animations i wanted (believing it would simulate the real thing). The problem i am having is because the screen is so large(H2000 W10777), all graphics and animations i am compositing ONLY display correctly when the screen is completely zoomed in.
When i get the full screen in shot, everything is pixelated to a point that it's almost not recognizable (and definately not usable for previewing).
I would greatly appreciate it if someone could let me know if there is some setting that i could change this with, or if not what the smartest workaround would be.
Additionally i would appreciate knowing if i should be doing this in 16 bit rather than 8 bit (i am yet to figure out what this means).
Thanks.
Re: Help with viewing huge file.. by Steve Roberts on Jan 29, 2008 at 1:42:18 pm
Why that size?
I ask because the screen size does not determine the size of our work -- the playback device determines the size of our work.
For example, if your work were being played back on 4 DVDs, then your (design) comp size would be 4x720 pixels wide by 540 pixels tall for NTSC. Then you'd drag that into 4 DV comps for rendering. That sort of thing. The screen size does not matter.
So. Why the size? How are you playing back the animations? DVD? Hard drive?
Re: Help with viewing huge file.. by Adam Margolis on Jan 29, 2008 at 2:33:48 pm
I was given instructions to create it in 1 massive video file that would then be split (with special software and hardware) and projected through each projector.
Using 4 high end (synched) dvd players may deal with the massive computer power needed but for practical purposes i need to design it in 1 file for now anyway.
It is 1 animation (with many elements crossing the entire screen) which is why it is so important i see it clearly in all 1 view.
As said previously the screen size (in AE) is W:10777 H:2000
I am using high resolution images and footage for the compositing and i have calculated that this is the size i need for it to be as clear as i want..
Since posting the last one i did some experimenting (scaling up 1 large graphic over the screen) and it looks like i may run into issues anyway.
I have a top of the range laptop but AE will only render 2 frames for prievewing at any 1 time.
Thinking about it now i don't know how i am going to get round that and the fact is i really need to because i really can't imagine i would be able to create some of the effects in 4 screens anyway...
Any advice on this greatly appreciate as i have a hell of alot riding on it's success.
Re: Help with viewing huge file.. by Adam Margolis on Jan 29, 2008 at 3:05:11 pm
I think i have come up with the solution though need to verify.
Short of buying a $30'000 system i don't think i will get this done at home.
When i apply what i know about huge digital images i smack my head and feel stupid for thinking i could do this in the first place.
What i want to know is if AE has the ability to allow me to do it all on a small scale that i could then transfer the motion data etc into the correct size (that i would then pay to get rendered somewhere).
Another workaround i can think of would be to actual go through the process of designing it mathmatically on 4 screens and then doing compressed renders that i could then manually join for prievewing.
I know almost nothing about video file compressing though so don't know what is possible..
I apologize if this is giving you a headache but all help appreciated...
Re: Help with viewing huge file.. by Steve Roberts on Jan 29, 2008 at 3:18:16 pm
Yes, the idea is to design it in one comp. If they say one file, then so be it.
However, if it is being played on DVDs, then the resolution must be as I indicated, since the DVD spec is very stringent. The only exception would be if they were playing back on Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.
So. I ask again. Why 10777x2000? Why those numbers? What is the specific technical reason for choosing those specific numbers?
Re: Help with viewing huge file.. by Adam Margolis on Jan 29, 2008 at 3:41:07 pm
That is the size that would allow me to display it as clear as i want to. I calculated it by looking at the size of the images i am using (and what i already know about large scale printing).
I probably do have a bit of leway with (could cut back to about 80%) but in the current file size this would still go about 1 frame per second..
Is it possible for me to do it all small scale (i would shrink all images) and then upscale and apply the data to a large comp??
I am thinking of the "create proxy" function but again i am essentially new to AE.
Thanks.
Re: Help with viewing huge file.. by Adam Margolis on Jan 29, 2008 at 3:47:33 pm
*Additional thought*
Even if i can't do it that way i could do it all small scale and then mathmatically apply HAHAHAHAHAHAHA...
I can do it all small and just note the mathmatic changes myself.. Even in a large file this works because i don't need to preview the images (hence evil laugh)
HAHAHAHAHAa
Re: Help with viewing huge file.. by Dave LaRonde on Jan 29, 2008 at 4:50:08 pm
The resolution of the playback system is the determining factor for the size of you comp. End of story. The Screen Aspect Ratio of the playback system is also a determining factor: it determines the Pixel Aspect ratio you will use in your comps.
You say you must deliver one super-wide file, and they will split it into four pieces for playback? Fine. Your task then becomes to find out what the resolution of those four playback devices will be.
Will they be four standard-definition, 4x3 DVD players? You can then create ONE comp from one of AE's DV presets (using the appropriate PAL or NTSC variant) as a reference. Then multiply the horizontal dimension by four, retain the pixel aspect ratio from the reference comp, and you have the proper size for your super-wide AE comp.
This trick will work for ANY standard playback device, such as NTSC DVD, PAL DVD, Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. But you have to know the horizontal and vertical dimensions and pixel aspect ratio of the playback device.
I suggest you get on the phone to the people who will play this back and get some information.
Re: Help with viewing huge file.. by Steve Roberts on Jan 29, 2008 at 4:17:04 pm
Yes, but it will not be that clear if it is being played back on Standard def DVD machines. Your video will be reduced to the resolution I stated, then enlarged by projecting.
Anyway, it sounds as if you've made up your mind. Good luck.
Re: Help with viewing huge file.. by Adam Margolis on Jan 29, 2008 at 4:37:03 pm
Yeah i see what you were saying with that now..
If it was 1 file i would have no alternative than to buy a 20 grand computer. i am 100% that getting 4 HD players is within my budget and i can test an SD render at home regardless.
I don't know what the proxy function does so if you know of i way i could streamline the data transfer (rather than manually recording everything) i would be greatful..
Also when you originally responded i did'nt realize you were a creative cow member so thanks for your time...
Re: Help with viewing huge file.. by Jan Sherlink on Jan 29, 2008 at 4:56:06 pm
A lot depends on the footage and assets-size you're using.
I only made Graphics for large projections 2-3 times.
The graphics were mainly text and HiRes pictures.
My workflow was;
-import all assets in highest resolution and quality
-create low quality Proxy's from stills and video (jpg's and mjpgb video)
-create a comp in 333x1796 (in your case)
-complete making the animation (don't scale down assets using plugins but use AE's scale)(previewing the animation works at this kind of resolution)
-create a new comp in 2000x10777 and drag your first comp into it
-scale it to full-screen (it will look blurry)
-enable the "Collapse transformations" switch on the comp's layer (most assets will look sharp)
-and render this final without the proxy's
not all kind of effects scale well this way,
but there'll always be limitations working in that res !
Do some testing wether the effects used will scale up ok !!
