AE7.0 Yawning Gap
by Taliesn
on
Jan 17, 2006 at 3:24:38 pm
Alright I *am* atleast appreciative that the upgrade price is a sober $200 for the Pro version , but as stated elsewhere , the lionshare of noticable new features are performance oriented. This includes the approach of the new UI workflow. Welcome evolution indeed. That said here comes the beef.
No advancements to actual animation of graphic FX. Nothing about including animatable Photoshop *Styles* with personal customizations that casn be saved as presets. I'd have thought that would've been a natural progression.
And while I'm on the *animatable Photoshop* bandwagon , the big one that i have been lobbyng for but saw nothing new on , was making more of Photoshop's *paintbrush engine* animatable via inclusion in AfterFX Pro. How much would it have been to ask to atleast be able to import the brush footprint libraries. They're all only 2d flat shapes in succession. Need I surmise that this means Adobe beleives most motion graphics artist can't/don't paint well enough to begin with to want to then animate such a featue and is , thus , somewhat of a strectch? For me and my well-traveled 12 x 18 Wacom I feel let down. Photoshop's brush engine is close enough to the artistic fluidity and range of Corel's Painter to be poised for a breakout into truly new territory and I really wished that the wizards of Adobe would've paid attention to this unique feature by taking it to the next logical level. Really too, too bad.
And speaking of animated graphics why no allowance for atleast stop-motion animation of Illustrator's bezier path brush vectors. There are some equally brilliant vector brush shapes that would be oh so sweet to be able to animate either in the process of creating the brush path or then being able to animate , by way of direct hand's on manipulation of the bezier path , those same vector brush strokes.
I , for one , have been dying to , one day , be able to *animate* creative brush path signatures *along a path*. just the way Adobe shows off ther many ways you can animate *text* along a path.
What's the bloody hold-up on that front unless digital paint brush artists are consoidered back-benchers.
Now I appreciate that all this level of brush engine animation requires rendering considerations , but we're now in the era of truly fast grafxcards , GB's of RAM , and multicore multi- CPU's. This is the 21st century for crying out loud and it's highest time the *artistic* side of the equation got some new attention ; especially since Adobe has already begun to show that it "gets it" with regards to advancing the brush engines in their *static* state via PShop & Illustrator. C'mon guys , now artists genuinely good with a brush will have to wait another 18 months to 2 years to be allowed to * paint in animation*.
I did mention that this is the 21st century , didn't I. ;-)
Later,
Taliesn
Re: AE7.0 Yawning Gap by Barend Onneweer on Jan 17, 2006 at 3:48:25 pm
Well... you can't have it all, can you.
There's a lot of features that all of us would love to see added into AE, trust me, I've filed loads of them. In your case, have you actually sent an email to Adobe with your feature requests? That's how it works.
But if you consider that the interface has been completely rebuilt, the render engine has been upgraded to include 32-bit float, and linear blending on all of the bit-depths.
6.5 was a release for motiongraphics artists, with loads of new effects bundled, text animators etc.
7.0 seems to focus on improving workflow (I for one work a lot faster in 7 than in 6.5), and control over what you're doing. Quad views for 3D, OpenGL accelleration, the graph editor, tight integration with Premiere and Encore. Plus as a bonus smooth slomo's and Photoshop's Lens Blur.
Re: AE7.0 Yawning Gap by lasvideo on Jan 17, 2006 at 4:05:18 pm
I guess the transition from 6 to 6.5 spoiled me, because I also feel underwhelmed by 7. Things like an intergrated tool for rotoscoping, and 3D enhancements would have left me with a full plate feeling. After viewing all the reviews , I think I will purchase a third party roto tool and a third party particle system and that will make me feel like my capabilites have been enhanced.
Re: AE7.0 Yawning Gap by Barend Onneweer on Jan 17, 2006 at 4:11:02 pm
I agree that the 7.0 update may not sound as glamorous - and that we were quite spoilt by the 6.5 upgrade...
But I would seriously recommend downloading the demo once it's online, and try out the new interface. If you like working in 3D space in AE, you'll love the new quad viewports UI.
Seriously, I've been using 7 exclusively for months now, and would hate to have to go back to 6.5, just because of the interface. It's a lot more than just a visual overhaul. But don't take my word for it, just give it a testdrive once the demo is available.
As for particle systems: Trapcode Particular is great.
Re: AE7.0 Yawning Gap by Guy on Jan 17, 2006 at 4:33:43 pm
"you'll love the new quad viewports UI."
Didn't we already have multiple viewports? Is this new?
"we were quite spoilt by the 6.5 upgrade..."
I am spoiled looking at Fusion 5 (even at $5k)
After Effects is still awesome software. But this upgrade is very WEAK.
What was Adobe doing for over a year? I bet company soccer team is undefeated!
Where are the things we NEED?
-----At a minimum:
-B-Spline masks
-Custom Brushes
-How about a simple folder in the timeline (like in Photoshop layer palette) or some way to view a nested comps layers?
-----All the kids are doing it:
-A more intuitive color corrector (3rd party software that Adobe just buys doesn't count)
-XML import or some way to import EDL's from Editing software that people actually use. (again, 3rd party software doesn't count)
-----Now I'm just dreaming:
-3D object import, or at leat a way to exrude and bevel text or a layer (Zax is a GREAT work around)
-selective lighting
-additional node based view/interface that is actually functional. This would be HUGE.
I will upgrade & every new feature in AE7 is great, we just need another 5 big ones, thats all.
Yes, I did send this list to Adobe as feature requests, a few times, starting with version 5.
Re: AE7.0 Yawning Gap by Barend Onneweer on Jan 17, 2006 at 9:55:04 pm
[Guy]"
Didn't we already have multiple viewports? Is this new?"
No you didn't have this already... Yes you could set up multiple viewports for the same comp, but I don't know about you, I thought it was a pain.
With the improved OpenGL accelleration you can set top, left and front to 'Always OpenGL', and the Camera view to 'Interactive OpenGL'. Works like a charm.
The thing is, you really need to play around with it to appreciate it. But I'm never going back to the old UI.
And I realize that everyone has their own priorities, and I've got a couple of requests for my own, but now you go comparing a 5k app to a 1k app... I'm sorry... but that's plain silly. Spend a couple hundred bucks on the Silhouette tools, and you'll have all the masking and paint tools you need, well below the price of Fusion.
Re: AE7.0 Yawning Gap by oakmozart on Jan 18, 2006 at 1:09:31 am
I, too, am extremely disappointed by this release. There's some good stuff in it, and I realize that we've been spoiled by 6.5. However, as was pointed out to me by a master AE user I know: the "solid" upgrades (5.0, 6.0, 7.0, etc.) are always great, but it's the "dot" releases (5.5, 6.5, 7.5, etc.) that always seem to kick out the awesome new goodies, plus build/improve upon new features released in the previous "solid" version. Also, keep in mind that Adobe usually rolls out its "dot" releases within a year of their "solid" releases. Who knows what treasure lies within Adobe's sleeves? We'll find out in a year or so when 7.5 hits the shelves.
2 features I'm absolutely shocked that Adobe hasn't included are 1394 (firewire) capture/output support...WITHOUT needing Premiere (this is a huge request by tons of users, since many AE artists don't even own an NLE and therefore don't need one if they're just running effects on their own), as well as 3D extrusion capabilities. I love Boris Red and use it and Avid's Marquee Title Tool for 3D extruded text. I'd love to have this ability in AE. I've been lobbying for it in combustion 5, as well (also due in the not-too-distant future).
Re: AE7.0 Yawning Gap by oakmozart on Jan 18, 2006 at 9:50:16 pm
"Do you really want the AE dev team to spend their time creating functionality that most people already have in other apps?"
Yes, I do. The world's largest software corporation, aka Adobe, can handle something so simple as that, and not force users into purchasing Premiere Pro, or use another NLE. It's a great feature of combustion and has been there for 2 releases now (soon to be 3). Adobe kind of gave the ability in AE 7, but did it half-a$$ed by creating the new "Capture in Premiere Pro" command. It's a start, but not where it should be.
Yes, there's lots of other things I would like to see improved/included. This is but one of them.
Re: AE7.0 Yawning Gap by jayse on Jan 18, 2006 at 10:19:53 pm
I also believe there are much better things they could add and trouble shoot and spend time on than capture - it did come up a lot in the testing - arguments both ways.
But - if you don't want to buy an editor just to capture (that's understandable) just get something like Scenalyzer ($39) - it's better anyway - i usually use it instead of PPro -
Re: AE7.0 Yawning Gap by Steve Roberts on Jan 19, 2006 at 3:10:42 am
Good suggestion. I used to use MotoDV (editDV?) when it came with Cleaner. It was a nifty little utility that could capture and play out the Firewire port. Very useful. It's dead now.
But I've also done it with Windows Media Player, or some such utility on XP. Just gotta find it ... it's in there somewhere ...
Re: AE7.0 Yawning Gap by Guy on Jan 18, 2006 at 3:05:40 pm
Oh really?
Window > Four Comp Views
maybe not as elegant as AE7, but it WAS there, don't say it wasn't
And to an independant, small shop or sucessful freelancer BOTH Fusion AND AE are financially within reach. (Flame/Flint/Inferno or some other "system", that is another story.)
So I do think that Fusion is in the same conversation.
I don't mean to get into a pissing match, but stop defending a thin release.
Re: AE7.0 Yawning Gap by Barend Onneweer on Jan 18, 2006 at 3:23:51 pm
[Guy]"
Window > Four Comp Views
maybe not as elegant as AE7, but it WAS there, don't say it wasn't"
I suggest you try the demo and see if you still feel it's the same then...
Sure, I can buy both Fusion and AE. But it's not fair comparing the value for money between them.
The thing is, I've been working with 7.0 in production for six months now, and will never go back. The new interface is THAT big a deal.
Maybe the upgrade scheme is unfortunate for a share of the current users. Me, I think paying around 600 dollars for the upgrade to the Production Suite Premium is a pretty good deal, considering I'm getting an extra license for Illustrator with it.
Anyway... I'm really sorry you don't appreciate my pissing. I'm just trying to explain what I enjoy about the new release - as someone who's been working with it on a daily basis for a couple of months now.
Re: AE7.0 Yawning Gap by Ron Lindeboom on Jan 18, 2006 at 4:11:54 pm
[Guy]"Window > Four Comp Views -- maybe not as elegant as AE7, but it WAS there, don't say it wasn't"
Guy,
Comparing what arguably at best can be described as a convaluted workaround to the elegant interface that Barend aludes to, is not the same thing. If you wish to try to call Barend a liar -- which while you haven't said so directly, the implication is clearly more than there -- we will deal with it on our end. We do not allow people to take shots at our leaders like this and so I would ask that you either drop this line of thinking or you may find yourself asked to leave the Cow.
We do not ask that people agree with one another but we do insist that people respect one another.
Best regards,
Ron Lindeboom
(who has seen and worked with both and so knows that what you are describing and what Barend is describing are two different animals altogether -- sometimes listening and learning something new is a good thing.)
Re: AE7.0 Yawning Gap by Taliesn on Jan 18, 2006 at 3:48:39 pm
" 6.5 was a release for motiongraphics artists, with loads of new effects bundled, text animators etc...
..7.0 seems to focus on improving workflow (I for one work a lot faster in 7 than in 6.5), and control over what you're doing. "
Well apparently AE *needed* these performance upgrades or Adobe wouldn't be making this the core focus of the 7.0 release.It's almost as if the prevailing attitude is* Glad Adobe has finally gotten around to this* more than " 'bout damn time!". How long before Adobe made AE "dual processor aware* for OSX. Granted this is an OSX-centric ranlet , but for crying out loud here we are at the cusp of the transition to Intel-based OSX which will be powering whatever new Intel-based workstation hybrids
and Adobe only just got around to this level of performance optimization across the board.... with their market cap and thus financial resources.
Now a wholotta resources at Adobe will be trained upon canabalizing what's useful in the recently acquired Macromedia carcass to see what marketable pelts can be made from it. Meanwhile a lot of digital artists who learned to look at After FX as a kind of Photoshop with a timeline. I'm sure that I'm not alone in the expectation for Adobe *finishng* what they already started by the original decision to include the rudimentary brushengine of PShop and make that animatable in barely more than an elementary level stuck with a still very elementary airbrush footprint.
Bottomline: Well now with the results of this 7.0 release out in the marketplace I can only hope that other digital artists who would love to animate what they can already do deftly wieling atheir digital paintbrush will start lobbying Adobe like a house afire for even just a plug-in release.
Hell I'll start by getting Adobe's attention the only way I beleive will have some chance.
" Hey Adobe , I'd *PAY EXtra* for a *TIMELY* relase of a plug-in module that contians *ALL* of the features of the PShop CS2 brushengine and IllustratorCS2 made AE-animatable. Hell , offering a fully loadedd *animatable* brushengine just might encourage the younger generation with an incentive to actually want to learn & practice brush tecnnique rather than producing another wave of cut & paste collage-jockeys.
There , I had to get that out.
Feel better now ;-)
How to file Feature Requests... by Steve Forde on Jan 18, 2006 at 4:20:28 pm
Thought I would chime in here from a software development perspective. An application like AE is extremely rich with all the various things one "could" do. That said, it can also go in a about a million different directions with each new release.
AFTER you have tried out AE 7, go to: http://www.adobe.com/support/feature.html and file feature requests. You may not get a reply, but I can assure you they DO listen. New features of a software product when being designed are usually sketched, discussed, ripped apart, discussed some more, sold to non-believers (within the company), evangelised, villified, discussed even more....then maybe included in a product if there is enough justification.
Guess what? - You are the justification. Filing feature requests will allow software designers to "sell" the idea within a company. Features that have the backing of users almost always get more attention than some "nifty" idea that has never been done before.
Therefore, be quick, concise, objective and provide an absolute reason why you NEED it. Software 101 is: there are "Need" to have features, and "Nice" to have features. More often than not, it is you the user who decides which category a specific feature falls under.
This is how almost all software is made. I have personally gotten about two dozen features added to AE by following this method.
The power is really in your hands, it all depends on how you communicate what you feel is important.
Re: AE7.0 Yawning Gap by Mylenium on Jan 17, 2006 at 5:54:52 pm
I think you all are missing the one important thing: Development of a tool is not about fullfilling every users wishes, it's about integrating it into the overall strategy and product portfolio of a company. Though I would have adressed many other points first before even moving to 32bpc or integrating OpenGL 2, I must give credit to Adobe that in a way the overall feature set makes sense.
The other thing you are also not considering is the timeframe. At one point features have to be "nailed" to shove the product out of the door. Adobe could retire to their dark cellar and develop the perfect AE for 3 years, but in the meantime it would loose all its existing users because they don't get any advancement.
So please stay calm. I understand your disappointment, but it's quite possible that we will see some of your dream features in the next release and with the big overhaul already been done with this version, it should be much sooner than the gap from AE 6.5 to AE 7.
Re: AE7.0 Yawning Gap by jayse on Jan 18, 2006 at 12:34:43 am
Yeah - just think about Macromedia becoming part of Adobe. You'll start to understand just WHY they HAVE to start getting their act together interface wise - and the Encore/Premiere/Adobe/Audition tie is quite solid now. Possibly the most solid of any suite of apps i've used.
They also rearranged a lot of things to make it easier on new users. Effects that were once randomly placed are now in 'folder's that make sense to even a newbie.
I think the big thing that's hard to communicate through press is just how much your workflow will improve now. It's sooooooooooooooo much better/nicer and less annoying than before. In our work - that's worth a lot.
Trust me tho - that AE/PS integration with layer styles is something I've been FRequesting for forever. I want PS to rebuild it's layerstyle engine - so maybe they're waiting on that. Next release???
(side note - the new 'convert to smart object' in PS CS2 brings the layer effected layer in great into AE - of course flattened. But at least you can go back to PS and make changes without saving multiple versions. Smart Objects rawk)
