Converting 24P over 60 to 24PN

[Jim Blokland] "Also, the FRC plug-in doesn't even come up with one of these clips selected...I want to convert to 24PN so I can cut on a 23.98 timeline with other 24PN material."

Ok
a couple of things-- Contrary to what jeremy says there is not an advanced pulldown with progressive content.

the Default pulldown for 24p content is 3:2

The FRC needs to be downloaded from the panasonic web site it is not in FCP by default- you can find it at as the first link at the bottom of the page.
http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?display...

Notes when using the Software FRC:
the files must be in the browser window -- NOT inside bins or folders
The files need to be in the default 59.94 DVCPROHD content.

Shane has a excellent demo here on the Cow for people that have never used it.




gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Chicago, IL

Yep, I thought that was too good to be true. It doesn't work. It's looking for DV50 or DV material to remove the advanced pulldown. The manual is wrong. By the way, this is from Chapter 4 Page 59 of the "working with high definition and broadcast formats" manual. I quote:

To remove duplicate frames from your media files after capture:
Select the 720p60 clips in the Browser, then choose Tools > Remove Advanced Pulldown.
Your media files will remain the same size, but they will be set to play back at 23.98 fps.
Note: If no duplicate frames are detected, the media file remains at 59.94 fps.

When I do this, I get a warning talking about there's no dv or dv50 NTSC clips. Duh.

Well, Jim, that leaves with the method that Gary said with the DVCPRO HD Frame Rate Converter. The problem is that you lose audio. So you will have to grab the audio from the original clip and sync with the newly created clip.


FCP 5.1 should be in your future.


Jeremy

Tutorial on the DVCPRO HD Frame Rate Converter:

http://forums.creativecow.net/cgi-bin/page_wrapper.cgi?forumid=8&page=http:...



Shane


Alokut Productions
http://www.lfhd.net

[izoneguy] "Now if you shot 24p which is really 29.97 with Pulldown you must
use Cinema Tools. Then Reverse TeleCine."

"Nope --use the FRC for that also. Screw learning Cinema Tools when the 720p material can be handled with one click ease when using the FRC in Final Cut. If you do not start the Rev Telecine in Cinema Tools and you are not on the the 0 or 5 frame in the cadence it can cause weird visual anomalies

the default cadence for redundant frames for 24p material in 720p DVCPROHD is the industry standard 3:2 pulldown. there is not advanced pulldown in progressive content."

What are you talking about. I just did a test to make sure I don't insert foot in mouth. Shooting with HVX 200 at 1080 24p or 720 24p which is 29.97 with pulldown added. When I run FRC it says "Only DVCPRO HD 720p 59.94 fps media files are supported"

So if you want a 24p clip to be a 23.976 clip vs. 29.97 you must learn and use Cinema Tools.

The 720 59.94 mode is popular with VariCam owners because that is the only way to get smooth slo-mo from the VariCam, The HVX 200 can shoot at 60 fps on P2 cards.
With the HVX200 48 fps is popular also because you can always speed the clip up 200% to get back to 24p.

[Jim Blokland] "I took Gary's tip about putting the file at the root level and got the FRC to work. The end result? The timecode is zeroed and not carried over from the original (which in itself is not a big issue)"

that is correct --Using the FRC will strip both the timecode and audio off - it has too!

You are changing the timebase of your footage - and because the FRC handles the content based on what you shot - it is relying on you to re-conform the timecode- - Say you shoot 12 Fps to play back at 24fps. - are you really expecting FCP to recompute the original 1 min of 60 fps content that is now playing back for 2 minutes at 24fps - where are the additional TC numbering coming from? and that original audio is now playing back 2x as fast. - Bit the FRC has had to strip out the 4 redundant frames ( then math is 12frames divided into 60 frames = 5) so for every frame there are 4 additional identical frames for every new frame you want to capture.

[Jim Blokland] "But the problem is, the file is longer than the original. From an original file of 1:36:00 in duration, I'm getting a 2:00:00 file back. There are repeated frames periodically (seems about every 20th frame or so?)."

did you conform to 24.0 or 23.98?
it sounds as if you chose 24.0 by mistake.
also check all of the boxes in the FRC (remove dupe frames, make new self contained file, import into FCP.)





gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Chicago, IL

[Jim Blokland] "on my machine the only available choices were '23.98, 29.97 & 59.94' (if I remember correctly...)"

Yeah that was my problem, I was trying to do it from memory -and I was working in CT at the time hence the confusion.
NO there is not a 24.0 option ( you are correct)

I need to try the import later today- I only work in the PN modes so I need to shoot something to test this.
I will report later today.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Chicago, IL

jim

in the 720p mode - using the FRC with all 3 of the boxes checked- I have not been able to get the footage to replicate your problem of a stutter or judder -
I am going to assume that the odd look of the content is not a result a too quick a pan when working in 24p.


I do know that failing to check the "remove redundant frames' can cause issues with the content - and it will give you 24p content that may look odd.

IN 1080 24pA you have to have the most current version of FCP to properly handle the frame removal from the 1080 video stream (and NO just checking the dialog box in the P2 import window does not work)

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Chicago, IL

[Jim Blokland] "It was shot at 720P24 (over 60). If I step through the shot frame by frame, I see a frame duplicated every 5th frame (ie. FR 1-1, FR 2-2, FR 3-3, FR 4-4, FR 5-4) and the duration of the shot (originally 1:36:00) comes out at 2:00:00."

Jim
this is the result I got when I set the FRC to be 29.97 and not 23.98 and worked from sub clip.
the look you are getting looks and plays like 24pA (which is NOT available w/ progressive content)

One comment - Do Not Process a subclip. - you have to start on the 0 or 5 frame and if you sdo not know what those look like it causes errant processing of the frame removal.

gary





gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Chicago, IL

[Jim Blokland] "Thanks again. I am not using a subclip, but rather an imported clip from the CONTENTS/LASTCLIP.TXT files/folders"

Jim
this sounds as if you are processing them without importing them into FCP- and I know that you cannot do that.

[Jim Blokland] "If I seem to be getting 24PA framerates, I wonder if I could run the Remove Advanced Pulldown on the clip after the FRC? Might give it a try and post back."

it is not possible to have advanced pulldown with progressive content. And FCP's advanced pulldown removal does not handle HD content well you still need to use CT for the 1080 24pA processing.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Chicago, IL

Does anyone know of a workflow to bring the timcode back into a 23.98 or 29.97 base after frame removal. As an editor as well as a shooter I get very concerned when I start seeing frame patterns that are not completely linear, jump numbers and go beyond the 29.97 mark. I know I can adjust the timecode values manually, but I'd love to do this in a way where it happened upon import or in a batch process. This would also make it easier to archive downcoverted material to tape. Thanks