I buy a fair amount of my equipment and supplies at a store called the DV shop in Toronto.
www.dvshop.ca
It's a smaller store run buy a husband and wife team. By their name you can imagine that they are a shop devoted to DV production. They sell, post systems, lots of lighting, mics. etc. They have been really good at letting me use demo stuff for articles and testing as well.
The best thing abot it is that there are always demo models and Terry is always willing to take the time to give people one on one serveice and show the products really well. He has done this with DVX's, PD150's and recentl both Sony, JVC and Canon HDV camera's.
Since the realease of HVX they have been waiting for their Demo model
Re: Sad but True by Tim Martin on Mar 4, 2006 at 2:21:15 pm
I also look to the DV shop for many pieces of production gear, probably not as much as I should. Terry is knowledgeable and has a great client base. He's really changed the options here in Toronto, from just the large companies to more of a boutique sales shop. Side note, he does carry a lot of items in stock. Often I can get an item in stock with him that would be an order in at other locations. I haven't checked, but I think it would be really sad if outlets like Henry's or Vistek have had cameras demo cameras delivered.
Great post David, just wanted your not alone in your disappointment.
Re: Sad but True by Noah Kadner on Mar 5, 2006 at 6:12:16 am
Everyone knows these cameras are in short supply. It's reasonably prudent business give demo priority to stores with higher volume. The Mom and Pops always get screwed- check with Apple, Microsoft, Sony, et al...
Re: Sad but True by brianluce on Mar 5, 2006 at 3:39:22 pm
"Everyone knows these cameras are in short supply. It's reasonably prudent business give demo.... "
not at all. it's anti competitive. a single demo unit is fair--this kind of thing kills free enterprise. one day the mom and pop from "the dv shop" may be wearing name tags that say "wallmart". how do you think panny would like dealing with wallmart? wallmart wouldn't even buy the units, they'd consign them. ignore small business at your peril.
Just because we all know that mom and pops get screwed are we supposed to accept that it is OK?
I feel that this is an example of poor customer service as well. I know that Terry is an AJA and decklink dealer, that he sells many other brands. As part of their customer service AJA, SONY, JVC, DECKLINK, LOWEL, CANON, they all provide things for the store so that customers can see the product.
I thought Panasonic took the viel off the camera long time ago?
This is why I thiink it demonstrates no class and contempt for the very indy film makers they try so hard to sell to. Despite their efforts they aren't in touch with that at all.
Re: Sad but True by Tim Martin on Mar 5, 2006 at 4:32:11 pm
Noah,
I'd normally agree with you, because it is true. But, the DV Shop sells more brands (as David listed) to a specific demographic, the one that would actually buy the HVX. The larger stores we're discussing (in gerneral) don't even specialize in Video equipment. A lot of them are photography stores with a small video department, that 80% of is consumer.
We are talking about a store that only caters to the prosumer / professional video market in Toronto. I would have thought that it would be the exact place Panasonic would want to place a demo camera in. They are also one of the only players to have taken this stance with Terry.
Tim is right. It's not a typical place and it is really geared toward the exact market Panny strives to reach. Gear, is gear is gear and we can just shop around for the best prices and buy the products we want.
I've tried to make an effort to support small business because I am one myself. I have to say that the level of personal service and integrity a store owner like Terry has shown over the years has been a big thing for me.
I see Terry at FCP user group meeings, he is part of the community. To shun him insults all the good work he does and it does funnel into the (very small) community here.
I think that whether businesses are large or small they have to have their customers at the forfront of their mind. I am sure that not all the people at Panasonic are "bottom liners". But occasionally the "holier than thou" culture does rear it's ugly head. It is a collection of these small oversights that can add up to disinterest.
The beauty of the COW and these forums is that we can openly see and hear about the great or poor customer service that companies demonstrate (see Bob Zelin's thouhgts on this in a forthcoming COW article) can affect how companies respond to their customers.
Like you, my next purchase will probably be an HVX and I can say that I have been happy with Panasonics products, but as a customer I also like to point out where they could improve the customer service experience in this very competitive market.
Re: Sad but True by Frank Nolan on Mar 5, 2006 at 8:09:04 pm
Is there anything to stop Terry from actually buying a camera to have in his store? I mean if panasonic canada is limited to the amount of free demo models they can send out, then it would make sense, if the small shop owner is concerned about his customer base, that he just purchase a camera to have in the store so people could check it out and then if they wanted to purchase the product they could order through him and if the demand is there, I'm sure panasonic would have no problem shipping enough cameras to fill such a demand.
Since I cannot say anything for sure about Canadian distribution but it sounds like you have really damned Panasonic, without even talking to them. As far as a demo camera, does that mean they would get one for free? to show for a couple of weeks and then send it back? Well that is pretty unlikely just as it would be here in the US. Email me off list for contact info in Canada and you can find out the real deal. It may be but from here it sounds like too much micro-managing to step over a small guys order.
crittendenj at us.panasonic.com
Best,
Jan
Jan Crittenden Livingston
Product Manager, DVCPRO, DVCPRO50, AG-DVX100
Panasonic Broadcast & TV Systems
Re: Sad but True by Tim Martin on Mar 6, 2006 at 2:45:15 am
Jan,
I love how involved you are and the way Panasonic US is run, I think you guys are doing a great job. But, I've found there are huge differences in the way the two organizations are run. The Canada team is extremly supportive and have helped many organizations (including ones I'm involved in) with events and seminars. But, and I mean a big BUT. Sometimes they just plain suprise me. My orginzation needed an HVX 200 for a shoot and I spoke to the Candian Panasonic Reps for their suggestion on how to get one on time. They pushed me off to shops that had no idea of when they would be recieving cameras and when I suggested that we could get a camera package out of New York (Abel Cine love you guys) they quickly stated that they would not support that, expect no warrenty, that it was not a good idea at all and I should wait until one become available for me in Canada.
I can understand that it might be company policy to warrenty the product only in the country purchased. That's not a problem, at the price Panasonic is selling the camera for I can afford a couple of shipping charges. But, it was the attitude that it was an almost idiotic idea for me to suggest getting a camera however I could with four weeks of shooting approching quickly.
I don't think any of us are damning Panasonic without talking to them, I know David and I are both in contact with all of the reps in Canada on a regular basis. And I wouldn't say on the whole either David or I are damning Panasonic at all, I know David swears by his DVX and I'm a huge supporter of the HVX 200 (already have 40 hours of great footage in three weeks). We're just callling attention to and issue that has arised in Toronto.
With that all said I will be contacting Terry on Monday and offering my camera package for an event hosted at the DV Shop for his clients to see. We'll see if he is interested.
Re: Sad but True SPELLING MISTAKES by Tim Martin on Mar 6, 2006 at 2:49:12 am
Pressed Direct instead of Preview. I don't know how to edit my posts so I thought I'd just repost my last comments with corrected spelling. Sorry.
Jan,
I love how involved you are and the way Panasonic US is run, I think you guys are doing a great job. But, I've found there are huge differences in the way the two organizations are run. The Canada team is extremely supportive and have helped many organizations (including ones I'm involved in) with events and seminars. But, and I mean a big BUT. Sometimes they just plain surprise me. My organization needed an HVX 200 for a shoot and I spoke to the Canadian Panasonic Reps for their suggestion on how to get one on time. They pushed me off to shops that had no idea of when they would be recieving cameras and when I suggested that we could get a camera package out of New York (Abel Cine love you guys) they quickly stated that they would not support that, expect no warrenty, that it was not a good idea at all and I should wait until one become available for me in Canada.
I can understand that it might be company policy to warrenty the product only in the country purchased. That's not a problem, at the price Panasonic is selling the camera for I can afford a couple of shipping charges. But, it was the attitude that it was an almost idiotic idea for me to suggest getting a camera however I could with four weeks of shooting approching quickly.
I don't think any of us are damning Panasonic without talking to them, I know David and I are both in contact with all of the reps in Canada on a regular basis. And I wouldn't say on the whole either David or I are damning Panasonic at all, I know David swears by his DVX and I'm a huge supporter of the HVX 200 (already have 40 hours of great footage in three weeks). We're just callling attention to and issue that has arised in Toronto.
With that all said I will be contacting Terry on Monday and offering my camera package for an event hosted at the DV Shop for his clients to see. We'll see if he is interested.
Re: Sad but True SPELLING MISTAKES by David Battistella on Mar 6, 2006 at 4:10:38 am
Jan
I have to thank Tim for being so eloquent with his post. I admit that I do get passionate at times and I have tended to challenge in this forum. Panasonic makes good products, I own them and have acknowledged the strengths they bring to production. The big BUT in Tim's post was bang on!
While the perception might be that Canada is an arctic wasteland, our group (FCP users) are huge backers, trusters and inovators of the new tech coming out. Tim has just run a great workflow, shooting tons of Doc footage on his new camera (which as he stated he had to purchase out of the USA and sacrifice warrantly) that is how much he believes and is willing to risk.
Don't you want more people believing in your products that much?
While I have challenged the benifits of P2, I have not attacked Panasonic here, other than to state their treatment of a specific dealer. It's awful for Terry to have to tell his customers to wait, wait, wait and then finally he has to tell them that, "he is not a prefered dealer so if you wan the camera go to a photgraphy store". Based on what he has built his business on and who he sells to Panasonic should be embarrased.
There are, of course, two sides to every story but I was reacting to what was an upsetting story from somebody who has great integrity. Terry wasn't complaing about Panasonic to get me to say something, he was upset to be made to feel like a lesser dealer. His business is built on Digital Video Technology for beyond the Prosumer level. Panasonic should be having the HVX night at his shop not TIm with his camera from the USA. I am not positive but I don't even think they will sell one to Terry until they have filled quota's to these "preffered" dealers.
We know Dave Craig and the other Panasonic guys up here. This isn't abou them. It's not personal. I am sure that you can not control everything coming from Japan either. You all probably have no control over when they get units.
There were delays and promises with this camera and when it finally was released they should have just called it a pre release because the thing has barely been available to anyone. It is a bit of a ghost. It's like the IBM ads for the guys who are debuting the greatest product and then their website can not handle the traffic.
You may spin this to say, "it's been so successful that we can't keep up with demand!" but has it outsold the HDV camera's that are all over the world already in peoples hands? I doubt it.
i believe in the product but the company can be a bit silly about the simple things sometimes. Terry probably hasn't asked for anything for free, he just wants to be able to sell this product and it is hard for him to sell a picture in a brochure.
Re: Sad but True SPELLING MISTAKES by Barry Green on Mar 6, 2006 at 6:53:14 am
Right, but the thing is -- Jan can't do a thing about it. She's Panasonic US,and only Panasonic US. Panasonic Canada is a whole different company. Your complaints should be targeted directly to the Panasonic Canada representatives who can do something about the situation; only Panasonic Canada can resolve it.
-----------------
Get the most from your DVX camera. The DVX Book and DVX DVD are now available on ebay and at Amazon (http://www.fiftv.com/db)
So David,did you call David Craig and ask him about this situation? That was my point. Everyone wants to jump on Panaosnic Canada and say there is something wrong there without them saying anything. Why is it that they happen to be guilty without the right what is going on? I mean you have one side of the story but not two.
I have been in the situation myself where a customer called up and presented the situation and shortly after I had a dealer call me and describe the same situation differently.
Why not call David, since you know him and ask him what is going on?
Best,
Jan
Jan Crittenden Livingston
Product Manager, DVCPRO, DVCPRO50, AG-DVX100
Panasonic Broadcast & TV Systems
Re: Sad but True (some clarity) by David Battistella on Mar 6, 2006 at 3:33:14 pm
Jan,
I'll call David Craig today and I will ask Tim to call him too.
Barry,
As far as I can tell the Creative Cow P2 forum is a worldwide forum for users. I appreciate you commenting on Jan's behalf, but I never asked her to do anything about it. I am not sure if Panasonic Canada and Panasonic USA communicate but I could only hope that they were all as proactive and prudent as Jan is when it comes to customer service. Whether you buy Panasonic in Japan, Canada or the US you are a Panasonic customer, I think that Jan can recognize that. Jan's colleagues have much to learn about service and they would be wise to get involved in these forums as she has because she provides a great deal of added value and clarity to Panasonic customers everywhere.
I spoke to Terry today. He has fielded thousands of calls on this camera. Panasonic should appreciate that. As a knowledgeable dealer he does have an impact on which camera his customers purchase. He also has to take the time to explain this exciting new technology to clients and we know that is time consuming and requires a solid understanding of the product line. That is something a supplier can only dream of in a retailer.
Panasonic Canada has A list and B list dealers and apparently Terry is on the B list. He does not know what the criteria is for these lists. The camera is in short supply and he has been told that they will only start selling him camera's in May or June. Terry then took the camera off his website because it was taking a lot of his time explaining a product that he was not allowed to sell. It's not that he doesn't want to sell it but he made the choice to start promoting it again when he could actually sell it.
I for one think that based on his business model and his product knowledge he should be one of the first places to have it available. That criteria should matter as much as end of year numbers from larger dealers.
Re: Sad but True (some clarity) One more thing by David Battistella on Mar 6, 2006 at 3:38:06 pm
I forgot to mention this.
One of Terry's largest clients has already written a letter on his behalf to Panasonic Canada to help them understand the tremendous value he adds to the products he sells. So I will just do the same thing today as well.
DV Shop HVX200 Update by DV Dude on Mar 7, 2006 at 4:27:21 am
I want to thank David and Tim (and Shane) for the very kind words about my store that have been posted here - and to be honest, I'm humbled.
I'm not sure that these posts had anything to do with the phone call I got Monday afternoon - it seems now Panasonic Canada has given me the go-ahead to receive units around the end of March/early April.
Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus :)
(Just one quick clarification on demo units - no dealer gets a free demo unit. We pay for them, and usually full wholesale price).
Terry Steyn
President
The DV Shop
Toronto, Canada
www.dvshop.ca
Re: DV Shop HVX200 Update by Rennie on Mar 10, 2006 at 11:30:01 pm
Hey, the squeaky wheel gets the grease eh!
Terry - Why not take a lesson from the big boys like B&H who have been taking orders for the camera for about a year now? On the other hand you'd have to deal with a lot of screaming prepaid customers who have to wait till April when others around them already have the camera in hand. Guess we Canadians can be thankful we're not in PAL Land.
