DSLR + HD VIDEO - which one to choose?
by Trent Whittington
on
Jun 15, 2009 at 12:08:26 pm
Hey Guys,
Im in the market to buy a new Digital SLR with HD Video. Im only looking to record less then 5 min HD video clips at a time and the photos I shoot will only be for personal use. I dont currently own any lenses so Im free to suggestions to what way to go, because once I start buying additional lenses Im gonna be stuck with that manufacturer for a long time. Im looking to spend are about $1000 US.
I would like as much manual control as possible, especially for shooting video. However Im aware you pretty much more you pay, the more manual control you get.
Ive pretty much narrowed it down to these cameras below:
Canon EOS 500D T1i Rebel
Nikon D90
Any comments? Suggestions? Past Experiences?
Trent Whittington - Currently studying Associate Degree in Digital Television
iMac - 24inch 3.06Ghz, FC STUDIO 2, Adobe Production Premium CS4.
Asus eee - 8.9inch 1.6Ghz 1Gb Ram, Windows XP
Re: DSLR + HD VIDEO - which one to choose? by Micah McDowell on Jun 30, 2009 at 3:17:13 pm
From what I've heard, the D90 has some issues in it's video implementation, though it is a great still camera. The Rebel I know little about, though I've heard some good reviews.
In that price range, you should probably also consider the Panasonic GH1... it has highly regarded video abilities and uses a lens mount that can be adapted to a wide variety of lenses from various manufacturers.
Re: DSLR + HD VIDEO - which one to choose? by Bill Davis on Jul 2, 2009 at 7:06:54 am
The smart money these days is flocking to the Canon D5 Mk ii.
It's HD video is STUNNING. (as are it's digital stills) and there's a LOT of grass roots work being done to enable it as a primary video recording tool including rapid software and hardware add-on development.
Re: DSLR + HD VIDEO - which one to choose? by Gareth Watkins on Jul 2, 2009 at 9:35:58 am
Before you buy one, ask yourself a few questions about how you intend to use it.
1. Is it primarily to be used as a still camera with occasional video?
2. Do you have the expertise and equipment to edit the footage?
3. Do you need to record high quality sound?
4. Do you want to be able to alter focus and exposure while shooting?
Then check the specs of the cameras that you are interested in and compare with a decent HD camcorder.
Re: DSLR + HD VIDEO - which one to choose? by Bill Davis on Jul 14, 2009 at 11:33:22 pm
Gareth,
I think you're missing the main point of my post.
The reason the 5d Mk ii is so hot right now, is that a whole professional video ECOLOGY is developing around it. This ecology started with folks who just wanted a full-frame 35mm size sensor and the ability to shoot 1920 x 1080 30fps video for under $3500. And yes, there were significant compromises at first between the 5d and a video camera workflow. You mentioned the inability to adjust focus and exposure as two big ones. BUT those aspects were specifically FIXED in a new firmware upgrade about a month ago - precisely because CANON saw what users wanted to do with this particular "still camera" and RESPONDED to that.
Now accessory makers are scrambling to market with everything from mechanical shoulder rigs, to enhanced viewfinders and matte boxes - precisely because they've realized that the market is seeing this as much as a VIDEO tool - as the STILL image tool it was originally designed as.
To me it's reminiscent of how folks started using Hi-8 or DV camcorders for business videos back when business video meant shooting on Beta SP. Or how the early guys said a Laserwriter wasn't good enough for typesetting - you needed a Linotronic to set quality type. Nobody listened to that segment and people used the tools they could afford and made a LOT of money while the late adopters dragged their feet and kept holding on to the traditions.
Things are changing faster than ever.
In my experience, shooting video on a 35mm full frame inexpensive camera is FUN. And I was missing some of the fun of this business. I've owned a LOT of video cameras over my career. Now I'm excited to make video on something different.
Re: DSLR + HD VIDEO - which one to choose? by Johann Baron Lanteigne on Jul 4, 2009 at 3:05:51 am
I know it's over your budget, but get the Canon 5d MK2 it's by far the best video you can get in a DSLR and considering what it does, the camera is really cheap.
I currently use Nikon and I consider canon to be a downgrade when it comes to photography (mostly because I don't like the interface on the body) but I'm really considering switching to canon anyway because I need the 5d mk2. I'll wait and see if the D700x does good video, it's nikon last hope to compete with the cheap yet awesome 5d mk2.
I suggest you wait until you can afford the 5d mk2 or you make sure investing in nikon worth it. I wouldn't get the low end canon models, anyway once you upgrade you're gonna need to change your lenses because it's gonna be full frame (FX) so just wait until you can get a decent FX body and lenses.
Re: DSLR + HD VIDEO - which one to choose? by Martti Ekstrand on Jul 16, 2009 at 10:12:21 pm
It's hard to get hold of right now and cost more than your limit but I have the Panasonic Lumix GH1 - which is so far the DSLR that's most adapted for video use. It can be run in full manual in video mode which none of those two above can. You can read some more here and see two short films I've done with it.
Another option more in the price range you want is the new Pentax K7 which has manual aperture control in video mode but shutter and ISO is still automatic.
Re: DSLR + HD VIDEO - which one to choose? by Jacob Gardner on Aug 6, 2009 at 8:04:43 pm
I'm in the market as well and I'm leaning towards the panasonic. 1. it has 24p 2. its image sensor size is the closest to 35mm motion picture field of view/depth of field. The D5 is a 135 sized image sensor which is 35mm still frame and not motion picture 35. Also the hot rod PL adapter is friggen sweet. I still haven't seen a price on it but I'm excited where things are going.
I use a adapter for Canon FD primes and adapters for nearly all lens mounts that has ever been mass produced can be found for GH1 and other micro FourThirds cameras.
Here's a Red One, 5D Mk II, and GH1 footage comparison done for Birns and Sawyer in LA:
Re: DSLR + HD VIDEO - which one to choose? by Johann Baron Lanteigne on Aug 10, 2009 at 6:55:23 pm
I understand that the idea of having a sensor size close to real 35mm film is interesting, but don't you think that having better than what 35mm film has to offer is even more interesting? You get better low light performance (actually, I'm not sure if this applies to the 5d2 when using it in movie mode, IS IT better than the crop frame sensors that records 720p? in terms of noise at high iso?) and narrowed DOF. About the DOF if you want a look more like 35mm you could always stop down the aperture a little and you would generally get better sharpness than a wide open lens! another plus to me!
Also, I'm not sure if I get the importance of having 24p. I know how 24p looks but can't you convert your 30p into 24p for similar effect on movement? Also, I believe the most important of the 35mm look is the DOF, not the 24p.
If you could enlighten me on why 24 frames per second is so unique and important, I would appreciate it.
Re: DSLR + HD VIDEO - which one to choose? by Martti Ekstrand on Aug 11, 2009 at 2:29:33 pm
I also think that a shorter DOF has more to do with 'film look' than frame rate so for me 24 fps is not so important but 25 fps is as I live and work in a PAL land. Which pretty much excludes 5DmkII for me for a daily workflow. Quality frame rate conversion is a slow process and still yield artifacts, especially with overlapping motion. Also bear in mind that 5DmkII runs at exactly 30 fps, not NTSC 29.97. The GH1 has also over-cranking as default in 720 mode (59.94 fps NTSC / 50 fps PAL).
As for the depth of field difference between GH1 / 35mm movie cameras and full frame still cameras like 5dmkII is not a matter of closing the aperture "a little":
A 'normal' field of view is achieved with a 25mm lens on the GH1 and for a workable DOF with moving actors / objects / photo models moving in z-direction you mostly don't want to open up more than 2.8 or you need a pretty experienced focus puller. To get the same DOF with a 'normal' 50 mm lens on the 5DmkII, you have to stop down to 8.0 - a whole 3 steps. OK - the larger sensor on 5DmkII is more light sensitive but not by that amount.
Should also mention that a lot of people including Illya Friedman of Hot Rod Cameras and myself have concluded that the GH1's ISO ratings are conservatively valued by Panasonic. IE: GH1 is more light sensitive than the ISO hints to compared to other brands. Look at the ISO values given with-in the Birns and Sawyer film to check that.
cheers
check out my shorts: http://vimeo.com/marttiekstrand
Re: DSLR + HD VIDEO - which one to choose? by Micah McDowell on Sep 3, 2009 at 2:18:16 pm
Of course, the Canon EOS 7D just came out a couple days ago, so there's another option.
It's not quite the still photography camera that the 5D mkII is, but it has MUCH improved options for video, such as new framerates (at 1920x1080: 23.976, 24, 29.97, 30, and at 1280x720: 50 and 60p). It's not a full frame 35mm sensor but it's close enough (actually it's the same size as S35mm motion picture film, which is good enough for me).
Re: DSLR + HD VIDEO - which one to choose? by Jory Burson on Oct 7, 2009 at 6:57:05 am
Hi Martti,
I've also been eyeing the Canon 5 & 7d as well as the GH1 - but I don't know anyone who's edited footage from any of these cameras. Can you tell me what codec they're using for the video files? I've had trouble in the past getting video footage into FCP because the camera used a non-editable codec.
Re: DSLR + HD VIDEO - which one to choose? by Micah McDowell on Oct 7, 2009 at 4:29:34 pm
The Canons are using H.264 in a Quicktime wrapper at around 38Mb/s for the 5D and more for the 7D, while the Panasonic GH1 is AVCHD at 17Mb/s if I'm not mistaken.
I've been playing around with some 5D mkII footage a friend shot this week, and it isn't terribly hard to deal with (I'm on a PC with Premiere CS3... I can just drop it in the timeline and, while it does have to render, it's not a hassle at all). On the FCP side of things, I haven't tried it yet but I'll probably mess with that in a few days... I think you CAN just drop it in and edit but most recommend transcoding to Prores first.
On the other hand, I've had HUGE headaches with AVCHD in the past, and had to spend hours transcoding it to even get it into an editing system. I think things have improved on that end but it's still a much more compressed codec so something has to give.
Re: DSLR + HD VIDEO - which one to choose? by Jonathan Holt on Oct 10, 2009 at 7:39:54 am
I actually have the GH1 and just got done using it on a wedding that I filmed last weekend. Luckily, I had my Sony Z7U to pair along side it or I would have had a very unhappy bride. I just found a few settings that I am hoping will fix the problem, but I am getting light lines in my picture in low light. In good light, the video quality is great, but in low light its not so hot. Of course I am using the stock lens. For photography, I am not terribly impressed with the pictures. Again in low light situations, its hard to get a clear picture. Feels like a point and shoot almost.
Here is the wedding short I edited together. It was rainy, and the couple were requesting very low light situations for the reception, so its somewhat grainy during parts because I had to boost the gain some just so you can see it with the Sony.
Look at the shot at 4::27 of this video and you can clearly, even in HD, see the lines I am speaking of on her back.
Here is a low light / slow motion test I just did in my kitchen and again you can clearly see the lines. Has anyone else seen this? I am mainly wondering if its the kit lens, if the camera just doesn't perform, or if I have a defected unit.
Re: DSLR + HD VIDEO - which one to choose? by Joe Fountain on Oct 14, 2009 at 11:29:43 pm
Have the 7D and am mighty impressed. An excellent image with fantastic DOF and superb low light capabilities. Absolutely no problems editing with my quad core system and the 24p looks fantastic, the H.264 holds up well to colour correction and other effects and as of yet I can not fault it.
Cheaper than the 5D MKII, image is so much better than the XHA1 and more video options - Highly recommend!
Limited to around 12 minute files but there may be a work around on the horizon (exporting to uncompressed I hope)
