HDR-HC3 & M25U behavior w/HD-Connect-MI & 720/30p tapes
by AllanTepper
on
Sep 11, 2006 at 3:02:26 am
When playing back 720/30p tapes in the HDR-HC3 and M25, does the HDMI play back the signal natively at its original 720p (1280x720), or does it force an up-conversion to 1080i?
Also, in that case, is the 1394 control protocol at "DV" or "HDV"? Or is it flexible?
I am asking this question because in my experience with the M15, it is a catch 22 (on the component analog output): First of all, the M15 unfortunately forces an up-conversion from 720p to 1080i on the component analog output, and in that case the 1394 protocol is at "HDV". If you change the menu in the deck to "DV", the component analog output is forced to downconvert to 480i.
I hope that the 720/30p playback will be proper and flexible with the HDR-HC3 and M25 (using HDMI output and control via 1394). You seem to be the people with that answers, since you have obviously tested both machines with 720/30p, with the HDMI output and 1394 control.
Re: HDR-HC3 & M25U behavior w/HD-Connect-MI & 720/30p tapes by John Schell on Sep 13, 2006 at 2:19:12 pm
Hi Allan,
The HDR-HC3 plays back the native video. If you insert a 720p tape, the HDMI output will be 1280X720p, if you insert a 1080i tape, the HDMI output will be 1920X1080i. The M25 along with the JVC BR-HD50 have a menu selection that lets you choose the output (720p, 1080i, 480i/576i) regardless of the tape (a DV tape cannot be upconverted though).
We have not tried the deck control or HDMI output in DV mode. I'll give that a try, but I believe they are independant.
Let me know if you have any further questions.
Regards,
Re: HDR-HC3 & M25U behavior w/HD-Connect-MI & 720/30p tapes by AllanTepper on Sep 13, 2006 at 3:41:25 pm
Thank you very much. That is great.
I have another question: I know that the M25U is almost universal, in the sense that it will play back DV NTSC, DV PAL, 720/30p, 1080/50i, and 1080/60i.
I don't know whether the NTSC version of HDR-HC3 will play back DV PAL, 720/24P, and 720/25p properly via HDMI. I realize that the most complex of those would be 720/24p, which is really 23.98 with lots of flagged frames to be skipped, and I doubt that the circuits of the HC3 are designed to decode it. But DV PAL and 720/25p are much simpler.
If you don't have a mini DV tape recorded in those formats, I would be glad to mail you one of each (one in DV PAL, and another in 720/25p.
In the worst case, one could purchase a PAL HDR-HC3, but it would be great if it were not necessary.
Re: HDR-HC3 & M25U behavior w/HD-Connect-MI & 720/30p tapes by John Schell on Sep 13, 2006 at 7:28:23 pm
Hi Allan,
Thanks for the offer. We currently have tapes in every mode.
The 720p/24 as well as the 1080i24F formats do not play in other decks. IE 720p/24 only plays in the JVC equipment and 1080i24F only plays in Canon cameras.
The HC3 (NTSC version) will play 1080i50, but will not play 720p25.
I will note that the JVC BR-HD50 will not play 1080i footage, but the M25 will play 720p footage.
We will have a table up shortly to explain all the formats. (including DV and 720p50/60)
Regards,
John Schell
Convergent Design Inc.
Re: HDR-HC3 & M25U behavior w/HD-Connect-MI & 720/30p tapes by AllanTepper on Sep 13, 2006 at 8:24:09 pm
Thank you again.
You didn't mention whether the HC3 can playback PAL DV or not... but in any case, I will wait for your chart. When you say it will be "up" soon, I guess you mean your website. I hope you put a note up here with a link.
It sounds like there is no 100% universal HDV deck (even with HDMI output, which is much more forgiving than the M25's 1394 output), but the closest to being universal is the M25. Given the price of the HC3 and the M25, it is clear that for a user who requires playback of almost everything DV and HDV will be much better served buying the M25 than a pair of HC3's (one NTSC and one PAL), given that the total of both units will be = or greater than the cost of an M25, which indeed offer many other features not included with the HC3 (although missing an important feature of the BR-HD50).
When you publish your chart, please include the 1394 protocol behavior (i.e. when playing back 720p or 1080i natively via HDMI, whether the HC3 and M25 allow the device control to be "DV", not HDV.
Re: HDR-HC3 & M25U behavior w/HD-Connect-MI & 720/30p tapes by John Schell on Sep 14, 2006 at 4:09:33 pm
Hi Allan,
I tried a DV PAL tape in our NTSC HDR-HC3. It worked fine.
We should have the table up on our website early next week.
The M25 does seem to be a great value.
I should add that one large advantage of the HD-Connect MI is that a 720p tape in the M25 will not work for native HDV editors as nothing comes out the 1394 port. Our unit will save editors money, because they will not have to purchase multiple decks to handle the multiple formats.
Re: HDR-HC3 & M25U behavior w/HD-Connect-MI & 720/30p tapes by AllanTepper on Sep 14, 2006 at 9:53:35 pm
Thank you John,
I am very clear of the great flexibility of the HD-Connect-MI with these two Sony machines (HC3 and M25), since these machines and their HDMI output represent the only way to get digital output of both 1080i and most versions of 720p from the same deck.
It is important to verify the deck control via FireWire when playing back each format via HDMI (DV NTSC, DVPAL, 720/25p, 720/30p, 720/50p, 720/60p, 1080/50i, 1080/60i) to see whether the FireWire deck control of the HC3 and M25 will work and behave properly, and if so, whether it will work properly in either the DV FireWire deck control protocol... or the HDV FireWire deck control protocol. As I explained before, that is a major problem (Catch 22) with the M15 in this area, but I don't know if it is more flexible with the HC3 and M25. I hope so! Along with that also comes verification of proper time code identification via FireWire. I don't know whether the HD-Connect-MI is capable of both control protocols or not, but I suppose that it would be much simpler to use the DV control protocol only, if these two machines will allow it when playing back all of the formats.
