deciding between G-Tech and Maxx Digital
by Daniel Beahm
on
Jul 13, 2009 at 11:59:40 pm
Howdy.
I'm getting ready to put together a system for editing footage shot in 4K on the RED (feature film totaling around 5TB of data). I'll be cutting everything together in Premiere CS4.1 (I'm on a PC and I also like how it accesses the raw files instead of transcoding).
In addition to a new computer for the actual editing (looking at an HP z800 or similar self-built dual Nehalem or single i7 set up), I need a storage system to access the footage while cutting, and I'm trying to decide between Maxx Digital (recommended by the owner of the camera we shot on) and G-Technology (which keeps coming up and is recommended in various threads I have been reading on the topic).
I'm pretty much a noob to the whole RED 4K game, so any help would be greatly appreciated.
My biggest question right off the bat is why does G-Tech's web page only talk about 2k, while Maxx Digital's web page shows products for both 2K and 4K (Evo2K and Evo4K) -but then doesn't really differentiate much between the two regarding the 2K/4K thing. Do I really need to worry about this? I'm assuming either product is going to be plenty fast.
Re: deciding between G-Tech and Maxx Digital by Stephan Walfridsson on Jul 16, 2009 at 9:27:18 pm
When the drive manufacturers talk about 2k and 4k they refer to uncompressed rgb files. The data transfer speed needed for realtime playback with uncompressed 2k files is very high, 300MB/s and more. Redcode Raw only has a datarate up to 36MB/s. So drive speed really isn't an issue, unless you plan to convert your red footage to dpx files at a later stage and still want realtime playback.
Re: deciding between G-Tech and Maxx Digital by Gene Gilbert on Jul 16, 2009 at 10:10:14 pm
Hi Daniel,
Sorry I haven't responded sooner. If you are going to use RED RAW, the data rates are 28MB/s and 36MB/s, so any of our eSATA products will work fine, with data rates approaching the 200MB/s neighborhood with one enclosure RAID 5, and even faster if you use more enclosures and drives to stripe across. You could go with our new G-SPEED eS PRO with the SAS connectors and get nearly twice the speed!! Please let me know if you have any further questions.
Re: deciding between G-Tech and Maxx Digital by Daniel Beahm on Jul 16, 2009 at 10:30:21 pm
Thanks for responding, Gene.
I've got a little under 5TB of data for the project, so I'll be trying to see how best I can get a system of that size without having to buy two full systems to stripe together.
At $3k for 6TB with a controller card and SAS connectivity, that G-Speed eS PRO 6000 is looking pretty darn good.
I assume setting it up as RAID 0 (and making sure your data is backed up elsewhere) is the best way to go when purchasing only one unit for that amount of data? I think running this in RAID 5 would leave me with a little under the space I need (too close to risk it).
I also worry a little about a system utilizing 1.5TB drives (vs. 1TB or less), as from what I've seen they aren't the most stable beast yet.
Re: deciding between G-Tech and Maxx Digital by Gene Gilbert on Jul 16, 2009 at 11:53:42 pm
Hi Daniel,
You're welcome. Looks like you've got some things to think about...with the G-SPEED eS PRO, you have the latest technology that costs a little more, but to use the 6TB to the max, you want to go RAID 0 with no protection, and have a backup solution. What are you going to use for backup? At RAID 5, you will get about 4.5TB of storage available that is protected, if a drive fails, you replace the drive and rebuild. With a backup solution, if your RAID 0 goes down, you'll have to restore the whole volume, which can be time consuming...with the G-SPEED eS, you don't have quite the latest technology, but works very well. With the cost savings over the PRO, you may be able to afford 2 enclosures with drives, and RAID 5 them and get nearly the PRO speeds with more storage capacity. This solution also enables you to decide between the 1TB and 1.5TB drives so you may use what you are most comfortable with.
Re: deciding between G-Tech and Maxx Digital by Daniel Beahm on Jul 22, 2009 at 2:07:38 am
As for backup... I've got all my data backed up in three separate locations (3 sets of 5 drives in 2 different geographic locations), so I'm pretty satisfied with my data safety and going RAID-0 to achieve the most speed with the smallest system.
However...
I'm a little confused as to how RAID-5 (if I get 2x G-speed es) can be faster than RAID-0. Can you explain?
Also, will two G-speed es units get me around 8TB of storage in RAID-5?
Re: deciding between G-Tech and Maxx Digital by Gene Gilbert on Jul 22, 2009 at 4:15:12 pm
Hi Daniel,
Sorry for the confusion...what I was getting at is that using 2 G-SPEED eS enclosures with 4 drives each, using RAID 5 across 8 drives will be approximately the same data rate of a single G-SPEED eS PRO with 4 drives. Using 2 enclosures give you more storage at similar speeds. The reason I was suggesting RAID 5 is that you want a large available capacity, and I don't know how much backup space you already have available, so I am assuming you will have 5+TB available to back up your RAID 0.
Re: deciding between G-Tech and Maxx Digital by Gene Gilbert on Jul 24, 2009 at 12:58:20 am
Hi Daniel,
You could do a RAID5 with 2 enclosures housing two different size drives, but the capacity would be limited to the smallest capacity drives you use, for instance, if you used a 6TB and a 3TB eS, it would only use half the capacity of the 6TB unit, so it would be a smaller capacity, but it would be faster. I would probably recommend using 2 4TB units, and that would give you 7TB of RAID5. Hope this helps.
Re: deciding between G-Tech and Maxx Digital by Daniel Beahm on Jul 25, 2009 at 5:59:34 pm
I went ahead and ordered two 4TB G-Speed es Pro's with one of the bundled cards. That's 7TB of RAID-5 with speed to support two simultaneous streams of uncompressed 10-bit HD or a single 2K DPX sequence for less than $4,000 shipped.
Re: deciding between G-Tech and Maxx Digital by Daniel Beahm on Aug 4, 2009 at 5:58:54 pm
Still waiting for it to arrive. It's taking quite a long time.
One unit arrived within five days (last week). I'm being told I won't receive the other until sometime next week.
I purchased from Safe Harbor. Their website clearly states "usually ships in two days or less." When I wrote the company to ask if it usually takes this long to get a unit (more than two weeks), they said, "Yes, it usually takes this long."
I asked why their website states "two days or less," then, and they said they just put that on all their product pages! Pretty shady, huh?
I've had excellent communication from the company, and my other es Pro arrived quickly, but if you KNOW it USUALLY takes MUCH longer than two days, it is entirely deceptive to put "ships in two days or less" on your website.
To be clear, this is an issue with a reseller, Safe Harbor, not G-Tech itself (though the reason for the delay IS waiting for G-Tech to put the unit together and get it shipped out).
=======================
www.LeadingLadiesMovie.com
Let Love Lead™
Re: deciding between G-Tech and Maxx Digital by Gene Gilbert on Aug 4, 2009 at 9:34:13 pm
Hi Daniel,
Sorry to hear you haven't received your new array yet, I can understand your frustation. I wish there was something I could do from this end, but I don't think there is much I can do. We are backordered on our site until next week, so they are being built as we speak. Send me an email if you need any help.
Re: deciding between G-Tech and Maxx Digital by Claude Hayes on Aug 6, 2009 at 1:07:51 am
First of all, I don't understand how anyone can recommend 1.5TB drives. These are meant for desktop use and not recommended for RAID environments. Which is why you see alot of people using these 1.5TB drives with one problem after another.
Anyways, I'm glad to see you opted for the 1TB drives, I hope they were at least enterprise or RAID edition drives.
I'm also getting ready to purchase a storage system for a new project using RED R3D footage. G-Tech delivers many exceptional storage solutions and Gene has made many valid points. I just don't like the fact that I need to stripe two 4TB units together. Does G-Tech have any 8TB (8 drive) solutions? I have looked at other companies like Maxx Digital and CineRAID. So far, I'm leaning toward the CineRAID EditPro 8TB solution. It is using the Areca controller, which seems to be one of the best RAID controllers availble, according to some other threads here.
Gene, please let me know any advantages, if any, of using 2 4TB solutions rather than just 1 unit. Thanks.
Re: deciding between G-Tech and Maxx Digital by Gene Gilbert on Aug 7, 2009 at 11:33:39 pm
Hi Claude,
Thanks for your comments, you bring up many valid points. I think the 1.5TB recommendations that various companies have made has been because customers have requested it.
The advantages that I can see of using 2 4TB solutions instead of a single 8TB can be flexibility, both financial and performance-wise. Many people do not have the budgets to get a full 8TB at once, so they can purchase one enclosure with drives, and add more as your needs/finances grow. They also may not have the need for speed right away, but they can get started with something that can be supplemented to grow as they need the performance. You mention that you are going to be doing a project with RED R3D, which has a data rate of about 36MB/s, which is not that high, and we have many customers that are using smaller 2 drive solutions successfully, so if you wanted, you could have 2 separate 4 TB RAID 5 arrays, or you could stripe them all together across 2 channels for more speed. Whatever makes your workflow work best for YOU will be the best decision, be it our products or someone elses.
Re: deciding between G-Tech and Maxx Digital by Daniel Beahm on Aug 13, 2009 at 10:19:31 pm
As a follow up for anyone reading this thread for future reference...
I STILL haven't received my G-Speed es Pro from Safe Harbor Computer. I don't want to just "bad talk" a company for petty reasons, but I believe they've crossed a line hooking in buyers by making false claims.
Their site says "usually ships in two days," but it will be more than three weeks before I get my unit (fingers crossed). Not only that, but one of their representatives actually told me that YES, it does usually take a couple of weeks (even though their site says usually two days). I consider that lying. If it usually takes a couple of weeks, then it doesn't usually ship in two days. How can they expect this not to upset their customers?
I only hope it won't be longer than three weeks. At this point, they simply won't give me an answer as to when I'll have this unit.
It has been holding up post production for two weeks. I sincerely wish I had purchased from another company, but at this point, I can't possibly afford to cancel the order and wait even longer to receive the unit. I'm just hoping that I've been in their queue long enough to be receiving my product sooner than later.
Fair warning. Buyer beware.
=======================
www.LeadingLadiesMovie.com
Let Love Lead™
Re: deciding between G-Tech and Maxx Digital by Gene Gilbert on Aug 19, 2009 at 9:20:39 pm
Hi Daniel,
I wanted to get back in touch, have you received your drive yet? If you could, contact me at eugene.gilbert@hitachigst.com. I'd like to go over your case.
Re: deciding between G-Tech and Maxx Digital by Joe Procopio on Aug 27, 2009 at 12:18:08 pm
time to get a refund...that is ridiculous...Gene can help...Gtech is a great company to work with...they have wonderful customer service...their repair takes a little time...they misplaced my G3 when I sent it in, and it took longer than expected, but I was so busy, i wasn't as on top of it as I should have been...it probably never would have happened if I confirmed the arrival of the drive when it was sent there...
