Should I change careers to 3D animation?

	Re: Should I change careers to 3D animation? by Steve Wargo on Oct 26, 2009 at 5:25:06 am Hi Trea, Some pretty big effects houses with the very best 3-D artists have collapsed due to no work. Schools are turning out 3-D artists every day that are willing to work for practically nothing just to get started. They are hungry and $15 an hour looks great to them. A very good friend of mine is one of the best in the country and he is battling for work every day. There are several very good schools here in Phoenix and I am involved with both of them to some extent. Some of the graduates are VERY talented and can't find any sort of work in today's depressed economy. One graduate worked for me for two years after graduating and he loved/hated working here. He needed the income and the experience but was trapped in the corporate world of production. He did some pretty awesome work for us and it's all on his demo reel. At this time, he is making every connection that he can and some are paying off. He does most of his work over the internet and, for the most part, has been lucky enough to have been paid. I would suggest that you really take a look at the employment opportunities in this industry. First, create a website that showcases the work that you want to do. Put several demos together that show some compositing over a video image and some ground up creativity. Start here. There is a place here on the COW to showcase your work. As for Dave, ask the admissions office if you can have a contact list of their past student or at least graduates. (You won't get it) See where they've gone to work. How much do they make? You may actually do better by hooking up with a few local production companies and you can find out what companies are willing to pay and if there is a demand for your skill set. Note: I get about a dozen resumes each month from graduates and highly experienced graphics/3_D designers wanting to do what you want to do. I never hire them. Well, almost never. Years ago, a guy called me on the phone from somewhere else in the country and asked if I would be interested in motion backgrounds that could be used behind text or as show bumpers. I saw a need and suggested that he create one as a sample. Long story short, he went on to create Digital Juice and we now own his entire library. There is no real answer to your question because two people with the same skills will achieve different results based on their drive, determination and entrepreneurial skills. Good luck. Steve Wargo Tempe, Arizona It's a dry heat! Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck 5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck 2-Sony EX-1 HD . Ask me how to Market Yourself using Send Out Cards Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Should I change careers to 3D animation? by Mark Suszko on Oct 26, 2009 at 3:15:58 pm I think we're in a time period where 3d artists most usually are hired freelance for one-time jobs now, and not brought on as full-timers. The ultra-talented will always manage to get work, but everybody below the "rock star" level will be scrabbling over the same dwindling set of crumbs, racing each other to the bottom with their rate cards just to keep assignments coming in. Alternately, some will take a fine arts approach and just go make what they want to make, and create their own projects, hiring themselves to work for themselves, as it were. This is a very hard time to make the choice you're facing, no question. I think the economy is slowly turning around, I see signs of it in local retail here, but it is going to take a long time to turn things around back to boom times. There is no shame in playing it safe and keeping the sure thing job. Especially when other people are counting on you. Ask yourself though if the timeline for the schooling really is that big a deal. Would it kill you to slow down and take the course in smaller chunks over a longer time, as work allows? Is the diploma most important, or the skills you got in the pursuit of the diploma? I can't speak for these guys, but I feel that for an animator, like any graphic artist, the reel is the only thing that should matter: producers want to know what time it is, not a long story about how you built the watch. A quality end product, delivered on time and on budget, is the bottom line. The credits on the end of a film never mention what school the craftspeople went to, just their names and what they did. So DAVE may be cool, but maybe you'll "see other people." As far as your passion for this field, you have to self-evaluate. Nobody can judge that but you. Is this animation work something you would pay someone else to let you do? Is it something that's in your head every waking moment? Are you already doing it at home, in your spare weekend time, any time you have to spare, is the garbage piled up in the kitchen because you're downstairs tweaking a render? Are your friends sick of you because this is all you ever talk about, and you never go anywhere that's not related to this passion? That kind of manic devotion is what will keep you going after you've sold off the house and car and moved back in with mom or dad and filled the spare room with screens and tablets and drive arrays. If you are not plumb loco about this, then wait, and keep the day job, as much as you hate it. Find ways to work and study around it. Maybe explore options for flex time or job sharing, make some subtle inquiries with an HR person. Or get serious about a job search for something else that will enable you to pursue this passion. Just be sure it's real passion and not just wishful infatuation. You have to be happy doing it without making the big money, or you won't be happy with the big money if it ever comes either. I don't make a great living, but I'm doing the thing I would be doing for free, if I had some other career. Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Should I change careers to 3D animation? by Mike Cohen on Oct 26, 2009 at 3:59:24 pm What I am wondering is what professors in 3D animation courses are telling their students about job prospects. 3D Animation is very broad. Find a niche, be it medical, industrial, biological or commercial. It is easier to approach potential clients with "I create 3D simulations of industrial processes similar to your business" vs "Hi, do you need some 3D animation?" See the difference? We have a full time illustrator on staff. When he started we were doing tons of Maya animation, but as that work dried up, he focused on the 2D work. Now if a client needs animation we find a vendor. There are many but finding a great one is the key. Make a reel of your best work. Post it on the COW, on Vimeo in HD, YouTube in HD and your own website. If you are not also a web designer, then keep your site simple. Do a google ad words campaign to try to get some traffic, but the market is saturated. Start a blog and talk about computer animation - both in general and specific to what you do, and do it here on the COW. COW blogs and forum posts get seen by Google and Bing. Getting hired full time as an animator is probably a slim chance. Rather, put yourself out there. Mike Cohen Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Should I change careers to 3D animation? by Ron Lindeboom on Oct 26, 2009 at 6:37:14 pm As so many have already made great points in this thread, I will merely point to one of the reasons that this field is becoming a field wherein people are hired for a job, not as fulltime employees. This link just went up on one of the LinkedIn groups that I belong to, the Stereoscopic 3D group. It is for a group in India that works in 3D and has the following group they are promoting... http://www.linkedin.com/groupRegistration?gid=1194447 How do you plan to complete with this kind of operation? You will need more of a strategy than just "I do good work, too." Best regards, Ron Lindeboom Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Should I change careers to 3D animation? by Ron Lindeboom on Oct 26, 2009 at 9:12:48 pm [Trea Cotton] "I understand that it is competitive but a lot of people are making it seem impossible." No, not *impossible* just really tough and improbable. As some have said here, there are no guarantees and only the most driven and talented succeed. Why? Let me give you a story since I am a grandfather and we like to do that. ;o) When I was in college liberal arts programs were all the rage and in addition to these mostly graduate-so-that-you-can-then-become-a-teacher-and-teach-some-else programs, one especially popular program was psychology. The schools rolled out a ton of them. Me, I was at one time the top student in the psychology program at the school I attended in Portland, Oregon. But I watched things closely even then and noticed that everyone around me graduating before I would, had a tough time getting jobs. The market was flooded with us "psychologists." I know many people my age who have degrees in psychology and/or liberal arts programs from my generation who did nothing with their degrees. Today's students all want to be animators, directors, models and artists of mass media. Psychology gave way in the 80s to MBA programs, and on and on -- until today mass media is the hot thing everyone wants to do. As Grinner Hester says here in this forum (and though he is only a father and not yet a grandfather, we have grudgingly bestowed upon Grinner that he too is a storyteller of merit), he says that you do this job because you HAVE to. You wouldn't be happy doing anything else. It is in your cells and it possesses you and you would do it if you had to pay people for the privilege. THAT is when you will find it working. Few find that it works any other way. Can it? Yes. There are always exceptions to every rule. But will it? Well, most of us who have been around this industry for decades would tell you that the exceptions are rare. That's the truth of the matter. Best regards, Ron Lindeboom Creativity is a type of learning process where the teacher and pupil are located in the same individual. Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. - Antoine de Saint Exupéry Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Should I change careers to 3D animation? by Steve Wargo on Oct 27, 2009 at 2:14:25 am [Trea Cotton] "I was curious as to WHY you don't ever hire the people that you mentioned who apply with you" I only have that need on an occasional basis and I already have a dozen, highly experienced people to draw from. Also, even though the new guy is cheaper, the mature, experienced person is the one who is going to think of things that I didn't vecause of their years of experience. When people ask me why another guy is so much cheaper than I am, my reply is "Because they're worth it". Steve Wargo Tempe, Arizona It's a dry heat! Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck 5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck 2-Sony EX-1 HD . Ask me how to Market Yourself using Send Out Cards Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Should I change careers to 3D animation? by Scott Cumbo on Oct 26, 2009 at 6:24:32 pm even with the schooling are you willing to start over? can your marrage survive you working for free for awhile? are you willing to do anything and everything to make it? just a few questions you should ask yourself. I was in a similar situation to you about 5 years ago. was 30 years old, married, had a decent job with a multi-billion dollar corp, was cutting stuff on the side and for fun. I ended up taking a nice buy-out package from my job so I was getting paid for 6 months and started over as an unpaid intern at a post house. worked my way up to editor in a few years and now i'm very content. But i was very lucky, had very good timing because spots opened up for me to move up in a timely manner. and worked my ass off... worked nights, weekends, double shifts, triple shifts, worked for free, did everything i could to make it happen. And i could have very easily failed and ended up in debt and probably divorced. so do you really want to do it? Scott Cumbo Editor Broadway Video, NYC Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: response by Scott Cumbo on Oct 26, 2009 at 11:11:56 pm and you may not have to work for free, but 80% of this business is who you know... and well, who do you know? if you don't know anyone, you may have to get your foot in the door somehow. a kickass reel will go a lot further than any cert from a school. on the other end of it, their will be hundreds of twenty-something kids with the same cert. that you will have, that are still living with mom and dad and will work for free. I'm not trying to talk you out of it, just stating the way things are. good luck, hope everything works out. Scott Cumbo Editor Broadway Video, NYC Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: response by Ron Lindeboom on Oct 27, 2009 at 1:16:32 am I know TONS of people in this industry, and even at the biggest film studios in the world. Does that mean that I can get you a job? Not always. Not often. In fact, my niece wanted a job and I couldn't get her one. The best I could do was get a door opened to her. After that, it was up to her. She got through the door. She never got to go through it twice. If any school could get their students guaranteed jobs, they'd put it in writing and every seat in the school would be full year round. I do not personally know of any schools willing to do that, though some will always dangle the carrot of a job because they "know people." Socrates said it: Know thyself. That's what produces the results in the end. I am not trying to be mean, I am simply trying to make you understand that nobody is going to make this happen for you but you. And with out-sourcing, endless numbers of people all trying to do the same thing, etc., etc., you have to be committed -- or as most of us here joke, we should have been committed long ago. Best regards, Ron Lindeboom Creativity is a type of learning process where the teacher and pupil are located in the same individual. Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. - Antoine de Saint Exupéry Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: response by Bob Zelin on Oct 27, 2009 at 2:36:35 am Trea, I live in Orlando - I live 2 minutes from Dave School. Let me assure you, going to Dave School (which is a tiny training facility in a building on the backlot of Universal Orlando) will NOT get you a job. Period. And Universal does not hire students of Dave School. And you know what, Universal's internal video business is not in the best of shape these days. You can go to "the best school" for anything you want to learn, and you are not going to just show up to an employeer, and say "Hi, I graduated from Dave School, or Full Sail with honors, and look at my cool reel I created in school". No one is going to hire you this way. Get a job. Get in somewhere. Work hard. Start learning by yourself. Show an interest, and tell your employeer that you can do graphics. If this is too hard, go to work for a company that makes 3D graphics packages, have them train you (while you work for very little money), get good at it, meet clients who buy these systems, and when they perceive you as an "expert" they will offer you jobs if they are available. You cannot be blind to the fact that their are "real editors" out there, that have been editing with AVID systems for 20 years, who say "I'm an editor, not a graphics guy", and some 19 year old comes along, that some how, already knows the entire Adobe graphics suite, as well as all the Apple Final Cut Studio programs - how did he do this ? Did he learn this in school ? I am a video engineer. I did not learn one damn thing in Electrical Engineering. I learned by doing it, by having an interest, by working hard, by taking every opportunity, by making opportunities for myself (by being aggresive, and embarassing myself). Bob Zelin Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: response by Bob Zelin on Oct 27, 2009 at 2:42:33 am Trea - I just watched your reel. It's good. You don't need DAVE school - you need a job. Instead of going to DAVE school, take a paycut, and GET IN SOMEWHERE. I don't know what your career is now, but you need to get into a professional video place now (like a local TV station, etc. - I don't know what state you are in). Once you are in, you can learn more, and learn quickly, while you are working in an enviornment that does stuff like this. Within 2 years, you will be back at your curreny pay level, and if you develop a reputation, you will be able to move to another company, and start getting the money you want. Don't go to a school. Bob Zelin Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: response by Mike Cohen on Oct 27, 2009 at 3:41:05 pm There is a lot of emphasis on what software you know. I have used 10 different editing systems since I started. As with Final Cut and Premiere, a Sony 9000 and CMX 3500 worked in similar ways. That's a problem with Full Sail type places - they teach you how to be a technician but don't really prepare you for the real world. That was the case with CT School of Broadcasting, which is now out of business. It's not the tools, it's what you do with them. So do great things. To quote Emmett Brown, PhD, "The future is what you make of it. So make it a good one." Mike Cohen Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index