Sadly, PROMAX will be closing its doors forever...
by Ron Lindeboom
on
May 7, 2008 at 9:58:26 pm
I just got off the phone with Dan Hatch, president of Promax, who told me that they are winding down and will be closing their doors forever. He cited a number of factors for the companies demise, a few being low profit margins, competition from Apple itself, the bad economy and other changes in the market.
In the end, it is sad to see such a venerable dealer leave the playing field.
Dan told me that he has been spending the last couple of weeks finding his team new jobs with other companies. "We have all been together so long, I had to, as I couldn't live with my myself if I did any less than do all in my power to help them find new places to work and support themselves." That is the kind of thing I have come to expect from Promax, as they are that kind of company.
Re: Sadly, PROMAX will be closing its doors forever... by Tim Kolb on May 8, 2008 at 12:02:09 am
Unfortunately NLE configuration firms don't have a bright future across the board.
Unfortunately the market wants cheap...and like the man said, the manufacturer can sell direct around you without having to pay your employees or heat and cool your floor space if they choose...
Adobe's box 'o plenty of software is now cheaper than After Effects was 5 years ago alone...and with much less capability than it has now BTW.
I think there are vendors who build custom workstations for a variety of purposes like animation and 3d that can dabble in NLE machines, but it's damn difficult to make a living at NLE integration (ProMax, DVLine, etc.) when the customer only values the equipment, not the know-how that goes into building and supporting the product...
Interesting that many of us in production are dealing with the same mentality from our customers and crying loudly at clients who don't want to pay us according to our expertise because their nephew got an iMac and FCP for his birthday and that's all you need, right?
Expertise is something becoming more difficult to market as it's worth seems to be inextricably linked to ever-lower cost tools during the "democratization" of our industry... too bad for us...and those that we buy from.
Re: Sadly, PROMAX will be closing its doors forever... by David Roth Weiss on May 8, 2008 at 12:30:58 am
The economy, the war, oil at $125, the democratization of video, and the availability of free information all play a part in the overall scheme of things that has brought about the demise of Promax and companies like it, but let's not forget, the landscape of digital technology and how we acquire it has changed and is changing even more today because of one simple fact, it simply works better.
David
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
So, it's started... by Steve Wargo on May 8, 2008 at 5:06:03 am
A few years ago, I commented this on a COW forum "I know that you're all wanting prices to drop so you can get into the business a lot cheaper than us old timers did, just a few years back. Well, if prices keep dropping, all of the profit will go away and companies will not survive and we won't have anything to buy. Before long, all of the product will dry up and we will be willing to pay anything for get what we need. We'll be buying on a street corner from a guy with a trench coat. No company can stay in business if the they succumb to low bidding each other." I was talking about SCSI hard drives at the time. As a consequence, drives now cost almost nothing and everybody is cheering about how little they paid for a 1 Terabyte drive. If you were making hard drives and had to make money to stay in business, you would be sweating right now."
ProMax needed to make a substantial profit to stay in business and the profit margins are gone.
Also, a few years back, I made this statement "It seems like some people are screaming that we shouldn't go to war over oil. Well, if we don't fight for oil, it will double in price and the pump price will double or triple right along with it. It will make very little difference to me because it's a small percentage of our overhead. The people who will suffer are the blue collar guy, the waitress at Denny's and the school teacher who drives across town to her low paying job." At that time, a barrel of oil was $53. Today, it's $125. In two years, maybe $250 a barrel. Why would the Emerates ever lower their price? I wouldn't, and neither would any of you.
Fast forward to 2012. HD cameras are $300 and everyone owns one. Laptop computers have 12 Tb of solid state memory that can handle any HD signal and what do we have? The 21 year old kids will underbid the people who are now cranking out video at $75 and our services will be worth nothing because they will be teaching video production and editing in grade school.
Lastly, because all of the companies advertising on this page have now gone out of business, Ron and Kathleen will retire and the COW will be gone. At that point, there is no further reason to live. Then what?
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!
Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .
Re: So, it's started... by David Roth Weiss on May 8, 2008 at 5:37:48 am
[Steve Wargo]"I made this statement "It seems like some people are screaming that we shouldn't go to war over oil. Well, if we don't fight for oil, it will double in price and the pump price will double or triple right along with it."
Whoa!!! Now hold on minute there big guy. As I seem to recall, we did go to war and the price tripled anyway, so how exactly does that strengthen your argument?
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
Re: So, it's started... by Brendan Coots on May 8, 2008 at 6:18:20 am
Yeah, seems like there are quite a few far-reaching statements here all around.
This argument that cheap gear = death of the industry is just plain wrong in my opinion, and it parallels the argument that all these kids entering the industry are going to under-price and over-perform us all out of our jobs. If your rates are based solely (or even heavily) on owning very expensive gear, and not on the level of quality that you deliver with that gear, that is a business model problem. If a carpenter bids to build you a new house, and tries to charge twice as much as the next guy by saying "Well, I've got over $500,000 in equipment here!" you would laugh and say "So what? Same house, twice the cost!" If you can't build a better house...
Maybe I'm in the wrong (or, god forbid, the minority) here, but I think that competing on the level of quality you offer will lead to solid profits no matter what happens in the gear market OR the economy. This is only achievable if studios ditch the "sausage factory" mentality and really offer clients unique productions, tailored to their needs, infused with solid creativity. These are things that 25-year old johnny-come-lately can't offer, birthday iMac notwithstanding. If you can't make the case that your work is of a higher quality than what he can do with that iMac, you might have to pack it in. As gear prices go down and competition goes up, the only studios left standing will be those that johnny never even tried to compete with because their talents were far beyond what his presets could muster.
And please, no one take this post to be an insinuation of any kind - I'm sure we all do excellent work. I am merely trying to point out that every industry across the entire capitalist spectrum faces similar challenges, and every business out there has to adapt, push harder and raise the bar, or die.
Re: So, it's started... by Andrew Kimery on May 8, 2008 at 7:16:37 am
To stay on topic: I'm really sad to hear about ProMax shutting it's doors. I've only worked w/them a couple of times, but they always seemed like a top notch company. Hopefully all the employees land on their feet.
To hit the slightly off topic vein of this thread: I have MS Word on my computer and a printer but for some reason my novel isn't selling at all. Does anyone know what kind of word processing software and printer Stephen King uses? 'Cause I think if I used the same stuff he does my novel would sell much better.
Re: So, it's started... by Steve Wargo on May 8, 2008 at 7:55:48 am
[Brendan Coots]" If you can't make the case that your work is of a higher quality than what he can do with that iMac, you might have to pack it in"
just a small example: When working with the US Government, they have several tiers of pricing and the lowest is usually the "under $10,000" catagory. This is awarded on price only without any merit for quality. I know because I just went through this for the fifth time in as many years. The first was a video on Diabetes on Indian reservations. We have a long history of award winning productions and, I have a guy on my team that is an expert on Native Americans with Diabetes who just finished a 1 hour show on Apaches for PBS' American Experience. The bid went to a kid with a bid $900 less than us. He shot it with a handheld disc camera using the camera mic and no lights what so ever. When he delivered it. They looked at it, asked us if it could be 'fixed" and then threw it in the trash. the money is gone.
With the economy in a slump, I am seeing more and more clients who are shopping on price alone. They keep asking if we can come down to someone else's price. Once we do, that's our price from then on. We're getting the very same thing from several of our deep pockets clients. The buyers are being told to cut costs and we're not cheap. It no longer matters that we have done Telly work for them in the past. Those days are gone. it's all about price.
One significant problem is the ability to shoot anything and post it on You Tube or other web video centers and they no longer have to pay for bandwidth, maintenance, or anything.
To conclude, we have come up with a new business model and it's starting to take hold and we have more control over quality and price but it took us a year to get it off the ground and it's just starting to bear fruit. Now, if I can just keep a lid on it...
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!
Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .
Re: So, it's started... by Rennie Klymyk on May 8, 2008 at 8:14:20 am
Yes, if you go way back to the B&W days of television we had tv and movies. Neighborhood kids gathered on the street and played hockey, football or baseball till suppertime or dusk.
Today we still have movies and tv but there is also movie rentals, computer games, youtube, chat lines and public forums like this. Kids are not out in the street playing phyically, they are growing obese in front of the computer. While the tools are cheaper for more people to enter into business there are more areas of the business to expand into and it is these younguns who are creating the googles, youtubes, my spaces and games that is buying everyone's time.
Instead of the 2:98 ratio of producers and watchers we had in the 50's we are approaching a ratio where more people or at least as many people are producing as there are people watching. A 50:50 ratio. If you and all your friends maintain your facebook site and or a blog and you pay your friends the same courtesy they offer you by visiting their sites in return, an awful lot of your time is used up in a day.
Advertisers don't know where to put their chips. Hopefully when you click on the "most watched videos" on you tube you'll get something that is worthwhile to watch and numbers will determine success. Move over Telly, Oscar and Golden Globe!
"thou can not stir a flower without crumbling a star" ......Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
Re: So, it's started... by Arnie Schlissel on May 8, 2008 at 6:26:35 pm
[Rennie Klymyk]"Hopefully when you click on the "most watched videos" on you tube you'll get something that is worthwhile to watch and numbers will determine success."
Umm... No, you get those singing cats...
This is why I'm not worried about competition from YouTube, BTW.
Arnie
Now in post: Peristroika, a film by Slava Tsukerman
Re: So, it's started... by Rennie Klymyk on May 8, 2008 at 6:49:55 pm
[Arnie Schlissel]"Umm... No, you get those singing cats... "
I guess I just don't watch enough of you tube, I've missed that one. LOL
I guess that's kind of my point. We are so overwhelmed with viewing material I would hope we could cut to the chase by hitting the "most viewed videos" but unfortunately at this point in time anyway, the serious stuff settles on the bottom. We don't get Apple TV here in Canada but I see there is a "Top Movies" list in the browser. Wonder if it's got the same following.
"thou can not stir a flower without crumbling a star" ......Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
Re: So, it's started... by Steve Wargo on May 9, 2008 at 4:52:32 am
Gentlemen, I shoot some very high level conferences, including one last November that included Sir Richard Branson. According to some of the top marketing gurus from around the globe, You Tube and several others are the new frontier for marketing and promotion. In the words of some Google execs "We didn't pay a billion dollars for a social network."
Better open your minds there guys are you'll be wondering what happened. Till last November, I would have agreed with you. Everything we create now gets exported for You Tube video and I-Pod / I-Phone.
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!
Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .
Re: So, it's started... by Brendan Coots on May 9, 2008 at 7:18:15 am
Maybe, but we've all seen similar things come and go. When blogs first took off, every marketing guru out there was insisting that every business needed a blog, and that they would lead to some revolution in communicating with customers. They pushed the blog angle over and over again. Well, how many corporate blogs have you been to lately?
YouTube's demographic is primarily the 20-something, goofy-video watching A.D.D. child. You think they're on YouTube watching a Gillette video? Hell no, they're watching The Hamster Stare. The marketing teams at these companies may lie to themselves for now and believe that it's the medium, not the media that attracts people to YouTube, but they are dead wrong. I would wager my job (and I guess I kind of am) that people aren't watching commercials on YouTube any more than they send a buddy request to the Mac N' Cheese Myspace page or watch the Pantene "viral" videos.
Social media is just that - a way to socialize and talk with your fellow humans. It is a place to relax, not to buy or be sold. After all, what kind of "conversation" can you have with someone who only wants to sell you something? This is why the whole corporate blog idea fizzled. What could they possibly say that would maintain a meaningful dialog?
Re: So, it's started... by Rennie Klymyk on May 9, 2008 at 9:18:24 am
I just watched CNN tonight, the first time I dialed it in in a while. I couldn't help but notice how often and how strongly i was being guided to their various web pages. It almost seemed frantic to me. I got the feeling they were missing all the web browsers who haven't been dialing in lately and are wanting to catch them on their web site as the next best thing to having them back as viewers.
This was the hot topic at NAB 2000 (last time I was there) and every one knew it was coming then but now it seems like it is upon us.
I agree, you tube is like the Alfred E Neuman Mad Magazine of the internet news stand but there are others and they will continue to grow. Even you tube does have some serious categories you can hang in if you choose to. We will choose our sites like we choose a magazine off a news stand.
People's leisure time or should I say television time is being vastly spread out to many new venues and many of them are one man band productions or single one of a kind flash in the pan productions. Every body has something to say and somewhere to say it and a lot of this stuff is self funded by what ever justification the makers place on their efforts.
I'm no expert but it would seem people making a living in this industry are facing a diluted market. Maybe population growth will bolster the demographics and everything will stay the same or we can all do what I'm doing - chatting on the cow while watching David Suzuki-The nature of Things on tv. I seldom just watch tv these days, I'll always have the computer monitor on beside it and be doing anything from watching a dvd to googling info to youtube or converting files or burning discs while I watch the tv until something really grabs my attention that is. then I'll pause everything else and center in on it.
The other thing I do that should really boost this industry actually is: I record all my tv programing to HDD. Then when I watch it, I watch it at 2-3X speed. I will admit, commercials get 4-6X speed and the audio can be difficult to discern but If everyone did this we would consume 2-3 times as much programing and breath new life into the industry. Everyone would prosper.
Sorry folks, I just had to add this last paragraph :)
"thou can not stir a flower without crumbling a star" ......Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
Re: So, it's started... by Steve Wargo on May 8, 2008 at 7:36:50 am
According to the White House, we did not go to war over oil. There was too much public outcry and we never accomplished anything except to get a bunch of our people killed or injured. Had we gone to war for "oil" maybe we could have been a bit more upfront about it instead of calling it a liberation. We liberated Europe 60 years ago and there was never a doubt about what our goals were.
So let's ask this, why did the price of oil increase by 150% over the course of several years? Well, to start with, 5 years ago, gas was $1.50 and we had a 6" gasoline supply line break between Tucson and Phoenix. Some radio moron heard about it and announced that we would run out of gas overnight. Everyone in town ran out and filled their tank. Well, of course we ran out because no city has enough gas to fill everyone's tank in one day. Even if we had it in the tank farms, there is no way to get it to the stations. Then, like the idiots we are, we started fighting over it. The gougers ran the price up to around $ 3.50 and people were getting beat up and shot.
What message did we send to the Arabs? "Hey, we will kill each other over $4 gas." They waited a few years and then crept the price of oil up to where it is today. We cry about it but we pay, pay, pay. Did they raise the price voluntarily because of the desire to make billions each day or are the terrorists forcing them to do it? Maybe we should tell them that price fixing is illegal and they could be sued.
if you could double your prices today without a hicup, would you do it. I did just that a few years ago and lost 40% of my business. That meant that I was now doing half the work and making more money. When the oil rich countries do it, they are condemned.
We need to drill in Alaska and everywhere else where we have oil. Or, curb our demand.
We are playing into their hands and it's our fault. We are doing nothing but burning fuel and heating the earth and we all know it.
Maybe we should have occupied Kuwait and kept that oil buy we are too political.
The country is a mess
The government is a mess
We are lied to every day.
Have I told you about the movie that we want to do on "Weather Control"?
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!
Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .
Re: Sadly, PROMAX will be closing its doors forever... by Tim Kolb on May 9, 2008 at 12:55:26 pm
[David Roth Weiss]"The economy, the war, oil at $125, the democratization of video, and the availability of free information all play a part in the overall scheme of things that has brought about the demise of Promax and companies like it, but let's not forget, the landscape of digital technology and how we acquire it has changed and is changing even more today because of one simple fact, it simply works better."
Not sure I'd have tossed the net quite that broadly...my much narrower focused point was that it seems ironic that all of us are in a time when making our clients recognize the value in real skill, experience and craftsmanship over simply owning some equipment is a necessary survival skill.
Yet we seem to be putting the same pricing/commodity pressure on our vendors that we decry from our frustratingly myopic clientele...
Re: Sadly, PROMAX will be closing its doors forever... by David Roth Weiss on May 9, 2008 at 4:00:31 pm
[Tim Kolb]"we seem to be putting the same pricing/commodity pressure on our vendors that we decry from our frustratingly myopic clientele..."
I think they are two very different things and as others have pointed out, I don't believe the demise of VARs such as Promax is so much about commodity pricing as it is the perception that the value added from VARs has become, or is perceived as unnecessary.
As an example, Macs are priced the same everywhere. Internet stores and big retailers (like Fryes) cannot undercut Apple's established pricing (or the VARs) if they want to continue to sell Macs. So, once pricing of the commodity is no longer variable, customers are simply gauging the value added by a VAR against configuring the same machine at the same price themselves. I think its clear that many are making the decision, right or wrong, that the valued added doesn't seem to be valuable enough like it once did.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
Re: Sadly, PROMAX will be closing its doors forever... by Tim Kolb on May 9, 2008 at 4:41:54 pm
[David Roth Weiss]"I don't believe the demise of VARs such as Promax is so much about commodity pricing as it is the perception that the value added from VARs has become, or is perceived as unnecessary."
...so...the product becomes a 'commodity' in the vernacular use of the term, no?
Certainly we have more capability than ever before...but as we know from the questions we see here at the cow, there are some pretty large and fundamental gaps in knowledge out there from owners of gear that haven't really completely examined their application of the technology. A good VAR could provide a LOT of value if you bought HDcam and an FCP/Mac system thinking you were going to use FW to load footage...when you could have bought DVC Pro...
This is all semantics in the end and everyone has their own opinion, but our mindsets in the USA are basically consistent with different context...whether you're a union auto worker who shops for everything at Wal Mart so you can buy more stuff...then you wonder where all the good jobs are going...or you're a video editor who buys an off-the-shelf computer, software and some I/O and come to the cow to ask your questions...and then wonder why tech support from all these companies is fading away...then wonder why your customers (who can now order all the same gear that you did from the same websites) don't see the value that YOU add...
It's circular. There is no difference in the irony between these two circumstances...just a different role that we play and a complete lack of recognition for the similarity.
I agree that skill will ultimately win out with clients, but our vendor support system will continue to diminish...
Re: Sadly, PROMAX will be closing its doors forever... by Mike Cohen on May 8, 2008 at 3:39:51 pm
Re: passing of ProMax
while I never bought one of their systems, I often viewed their configurations to see what is considered an up to date system spec for editing and they do have a cool website. Companies that have all their eggs in one basket always run the risk of someone inventing a cheaper chicken.
Diversification is a good idea for any business, or a backup plan.
Re: Expecting to be paid for talent vs based upon price alone.
There will always be those who use price as the only barometer of a vendor's services. We recently tried a new DVD replication house, because the owner came to visit us and gave us a good price compared to our usual vendor. We took a chance, and our 4000 disc order was 3 weeks behind schedule and he used the wrong DVD case.
Our services are specialized, however occasionally a client takes a pass, such is business.
Re: Price of Oil
This is the wrong forum to debate the politics of oil or anything else, unless it somehow relates to business and marketing. Certainly higher fuel costs affect the price of goods and services (tape stock?) (traveling to a shoot, running a generator etc) and the overall economy seems to be in one of its predictable cyclical downturns, but we'll recover.
Re: The War
It's technically a police action - LOL. My heart goes out to families of the soldiers who have died on both sides.
Just rented the movie Rendition - not sure if this was trying to be a political anti-Bush movie or just showing rendition for what it is. Time magazine last week had an interesting movie review comparing a documentary about Abu Grahib and Harold and Kumar got to Guantanamo Bay - essentially pointing out that this war has been subject to heartache and ridicule.
Attention Charlie Sheen - I think it is time for Hot Shots Part 33 1/3.
Re: Sadly, PROMAX will be closing its doors forever... by Bob Zelin on May 8, 2008 at 5:20:48 pm
I have recently written a new article for Cow on shared storage for edit systems. I should have called the article "what is the CHEAPEST way I can build a SAN system".
I should start all of my articles and replies to every post on Cow from now on with "What is the CHEAPEST way I can .......". For example, what is the cheapest HD camera I can get, what is the cheapest monitor I can get, what is the cheapest disk drive I can get, can you tell me how I can run AVID software without the dongle. Sadly (for us old guys), there are many talented 21 year old's out there with a HVX-200 and FCP edit system, that are willing to work for $100 a day (with gear) to get started in this business (mom and dad bought them the camera and FCP system). And their work looks "good enough" for many end clients.
ProMax was a gread VALUE ADDED RESELLER, but support or not - people today want the CHEAPEST xyz123 they can possibly get - no matter where it comes from.
Re: Sadly, PROMAX will be closing its doors forever... by David Roth Weiss on May 8, 2008 at 5:59:22 pm
[Bob Zelin]"people today want the CHEAPEST xyz123 they can possibly get - no matter where it comes from."
But Bob, all you have to do is look at a budget for a typical Discovery Channel documentary to see why. And, to further use Discovery as a prime example, the year they first mandated HD delivery, their average budget was slashed by 30%. And that was at time when inexpensive HD solutions hadn't yet entered the marketplace.
The trend toward the cheapest xyz123 may hurt, but it is a testament to many of the global giants we deal with everyday, such as Sony, and Pany, and Seagate, who showed an incredible ability to be nimble in the face of dramatically shifting demands in the marketplace.
David
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
Re: Sadly, PROMAX will be closing its doors forever... by David Roth Weiss on May 8, 2008 at 5:21:43 pm
[Mike Cohen]"This is the wrong forum to debate the politics of oil or anything else, unless it somehow relates to business and marketing."
Mike,
I didn't bring up these subjects to start a political debate, but rather to point out that they are affecting the overall tone and mood of the economy and the business environment. $120 oil is a "stressor" that will undoubtedly result in a shake out of businesses such as Promax and others, already weakened by other factors. So, it is time to put politics aside, and we should instead be looking into ways to shore-up our weaknesses now before the coming storm.
[Mike Cohen]"Re: The War
It's technically a police action - LOL. My heart goes out to families of the soldiers who have died on both sides."
Now that's the kind of statement that can easily start a long political debate and I don't see how it relates to the subject matter you yourself suggest we stick to. On the other hand, none of us can expect these emotional issues will not elicit emotional responses, so we all need to keep that in mind when it happens.
David
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
Re: Sadly, PROMAX will be closing its doors forever... by Stuart Allman on May 9, 2008 at 12:38:51 am
Personally I would rather respectfully lament the demise of a quality supplier...so Bush policies aside...
I see a lot of cow veterans on this thread. About a year ago I was just getting started in trying to join your ranks, but opted out. I personally found that there wasn't a real financially feasible way to enter the industry and gain the experience that would sufficiently build my value. There was always the kid with the rich parents who bought him the latest HD camera and editing system who would work for burritos. I couldn't compete on price and it was extremely frustrating just trying to get experience. So I understand why a company like Promax is closing it's doors. It's all about what's free on the web (youtube, joost, abc.com...) and what's the point of quality when it's going to get compressed to cell phone quality and sound like nails on a chalkboard?
I still love great cinematography, so I decided to take up photography as a hobby. I'm trying to get as good as the pictures I imagine taking - reading 5C's...and such books. Unless I could immediately offer something no one else could (I'm nobody special) or know someone in the industry I don't see a career path openning.
So in effect I'm now building my portfolio with free work using my (still) camera. I had to become "that kid" even though I'm not a kid anymore and I have to buy my own stuff. When you have to work that way it's difficult to justify paying a reseller.
I personally see a lot of parallels between demise of Promax and the demise of the CD music stores. It's just a matter of time and bandwidth for video.
Re: Sadly, PROMAX will be closing its doors forever... by Mark Suszko on May 9, 2008 at 9:03:19 pm
The skepticism of New Media is not 100 percent warranted. There ARE people who go to YouTube to look at commercials, heck, there is a network that ONLY plays commercials, called Firebrand.com and it is getting viewers. Their only secret is, the commercials are DAMN GOOD. When I catch Firebrand on my local cable, it's like an NPR "driveway moment", I can't break away, and byt he time I do, I just killed 30 minutes or more... watching nothing but commercials!
Look at BMW's series of commercial mini-dramas called "The Hire" or "The Driver" , directed by several famous movie directors and starring Clive Owen and other big stars.
And there is stuff on the net we just never conceived of before, as meta-advertising/info-tainment. Just one brilliant example of that is Geico's web site,
I would watch that web site's shenannigans in a heartbeat over much of the half-hour pablum on broadcast TV these days.
And none of that stuff was cheaply made. What it had was creativity, charm, humor, drama, everything we always wanted to have in a TV show.
Yes, there's lots of bad stuff on the web. But also brilliance.
Re: Sadly, PROMAX will be closing its doors forever... by Rennie Klymyk on May 9, 2008 at 10:19:44 pm
Hey Mark
All I get at www.firebrand,com is a homepage with an email link.
[Mark Suszko]"I would watch that web site's shenannigans in a heartbeat over much of the half-hour pablum on broadcast TV these days. "
There really are some great commercials. I like the guinness "It's alive inside - Music Machine"
and the Motorola razor phone ad on the subway. A&W's ad with the young guy daydreaming and the pretty girl dropping her phone # to him is a cute one too.
The one I saw a few years ago but I've never been able to find takes place in a hospital nursery. A young vivacious nurse enters the infirmary and a little baby boy takes a look at her cleavage and really starts to smile like he's hungry and she's got what he wants. He reacts so strongly the nurse just has to pick him up. When she does and starts bringing her close to give him a hug he gets so excited he pees all over the place. It was very tastefully done actually and hilarious. I think it was Italian. (probably wouldn't broadcast it in these parts) Anyone know about it?
"thou can not stir a flower without crumbling a star" ......Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
Re: Sadly, PROMAX will be closing its doors forever... by Tim Delarm on May 9, 2008 at 6:28:48 pm
I was told of this on Wednesday also as I was researching some new equipment.I too had just bought in November a full blown NLE from them with an extended service warranty.
What can a guy say. I know Adam Hatch, my sales rep has been nothing but top notch so I wish him the best.
Tim
59th Parallel Productions Inc.
ALASKA OUTDOORS TELEVISION
Re: Sadly, PROMAX will be closing its doors forever... by Christopher Wright on May 10, 2008 at 4:12:53 am
This is the second time Mr Wargo has injected political discourse (a very valid no-no) into this forum, but he at least nails this truism on the head!!
The country is a mess
The government is a mess
We are lied to every day.
As far as Promax, I too bought my first MAC/HD/Cinewave setup from them years ago, and just attended their event at the Sands Expo at NAB. I was shocked to hear of their sudden closure and will miss them as well (even though I never did win anything from their NAB raffles in six years running!). The video production world is indeed changing fast....
Dual 2.5 G5, IO, Kona LH, IO, Medea Raid, UL4D, NVidia 6800, 4Gig RAM
Octocore 8 GB Ram, Radeon card, MBP, MXO
Windows XP Adobe Studio CS3, Vegas 8.0, Lightwave 9.2, Sound Forge 9, Acid Pro 6, Continuum 5, Boris Red 4, Combustion 2008, Sapphire Effects
Thanks Chris...however... by Steve Wargo on May 10, 2008 at 8:59:32 pm
Thanks Chris...But...why is all of this happening in the first place?
1. The constant demand from the buying public that everything be low in price so thay cam buy lots of it for nothing, with no regard as to how companies will stay in business is killing companies left and right. Now, what if all of the companies that make hard drives go out of the HDD business because there was no money it, except for one? Hmmmm, they are now the only supplier and they think that 500Gb SATA drives should sell for $1000 each. Ridiculous you say? I think not.
If so, let's tell the Arab Emerates to shove their slimey oil because we are buying elsewhere.
The Bad Guys said "Next time, we will attack you from within". All they had to do was go to the Arab states and say "You will raise the price of oil to $500 per barrel or we will eliminate you". Let's see, Make a boatload of money and stay alive or give the Americans cheap oil? Sounds like a no-brainer to me.
2. The price of fuel affects everyone and it might actually be the reason that ProMax is going away. Everything they sell needs to ship in and ship out on a fossil fueled vehicle. The economy is way down, as it is every presedential election year, and people are trimming nickels and dimes from their costs. B&H is the WalMart of the industry and has driven the price of everything into the ground. They sell in such high volume that they can make a nickel on something and it's still a profit. No one can compete with them. I don't shop B&H and I don't shop WalMart. Sure, I pay a little more but I would rather support the people who actually care than the two companies who want to squeeze the rest of the suppliers out of business. Want to know why ProMax is finished? Ask the fools who buy from the cut throats.
We buy from BandPro, Location Sound, Trew Audio, BKW, Filmtools, National Video Tape, the vendors who advertise on the COW and ProMax. Is this a smart business move because we pay more? Maybe not, but I sleep just fine knowing that I am supporting people in the business who care about me instead of that nickel. In WalMart's defense, their prescription prices will probaly save numerous elders who live on a fixed income and can't afford medication. Crap, I did not want to say that but the only one's worse than WalMart are the pharmaceutical companies. The devil wears many hats.
Anyone out there who decided to buy something from B&H instead of ProMax over a few bucks can confidently say "Hey, look what I did!"
As far as mentioning politics, why do you think we're in the mess?
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!
Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .
Re: Thanks Chris...however... by Mike Cohen on May 10, 2008 at 10:55:56 pm
I earlier in this thread tried to separate the politics from the discussion, but i now realize that many business decisions we as consumers and professionals make are being influenced by geopolitical goings-on around the world.
Thus is can be difficult to separate business from politics - alas even non-political conversations can be interpreted as political depending upon one's point of view.
In summary, and to summarize this thread - the world is changing both economically and politically, sometimes as a result of one or another or both - and our industry faces economic changes along with other industries.
I think the discussions on this forum are a relevant and appropriate outlet for the uncertainties many face.
Re: Thanks Chris...however... by David Roth Weiss on May 10, 2008 at 11:25:15 pm
[Mike Cohen]"I think the discussions on this forum are a relevant and appropriate outlet for the uncertainties many face."
Mike,
I've noticed lately what almost seems to be a universal shift in mood and tone among people in general and in the media that I believe is tied directly to $125 a barrel oil. Concern and pessimism are creeping into the culture and it becomes harder and harder to look the other way when, as they say, there's an eight thousand pound elephant sitting in the middle of the room.
David
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
Re: Sadly, PROMAX will be closing its doors forever... by paul bolden on May 11, 2008 at 9:59:29 am
Over the years I've bought editing systems and gear from promax in irvine and hollywood as well as attended some of their training sessions. IMHO these guys were fair and honest vendors. They'll be missed.
