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HDV archive
by Craig Alan on Jun 24, 2009 at 4:51:18 pm

Yes I've done a search. I know different folk work differently. Just would like some specific workflow practices for comparison.

I capture either apple pro res or native HDV when working with HDV tapes.
I thought by now I would be burning blue ray discs but end users just don't have the players.

I save the original tapes for archival purposes. But it would be nice to have a master copy of the final edit as well, not something further compressed.
I back up final cuts and sometimes capture/render files on hard drives, but they are not really reliable long term. Plus I could be better at making sure I fire them up every so often.

I imagine the future will have some sort of reliable huge capacity storage that will take care of this - flash looks promising. HDV will disappear giving way to a new low-end HD format. But for now, what are folks doing - from capture to distribution to archiving for future projects or reedits or another DVD copy request?

And this question gets doubled if working with capture cards. With tape, if I do loose the hard drives or don’t back up to them at all, I still have the original tapes. Not so with capture cards.



OSX 10.5.3; MAC PRO 2 X 2.8 GHZ (EARLY 2008); FCP Suite; Sony camcorder vx2000/pd170;Canon xl2; Pana consumer cams; write professionally for a variety of media;teach video production in L.A.

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Re: HDV archive
by Michael Palmer on Jun 24, 2009 at 11:36:13 pm

Depending on the Export file size from your master edits, why not use DVD or Blue Ray and export as Pro Rez. This would make a great master. You may need to split the master export from 2 -3 timelines but you could alway reassemble them again later.

Good Luck
Michael Palmer

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Re: HDV archive
by Craig Alan on Jun 25, 2009 at 1:24:12 am

That sounds promising. Ok I figure out the maximum time in a prores timeline that one DVD can handle. I break up my timeline into portions. What are the settings to burn portions of a project to DVD from a prores timeline without having any further compression? And is it also lossless to get the DVD material back into FCP? For long term archiving, I have read we don’t really know how long DVDs or blue ray will keep material without problems.

OSX 10.5.3; MAC PRO 2 X 2.8 GHZ (EARLY 2008); FCP Suite; Sony camcorder vx2000/pd170;Canon xl2; Pana consumer cams; write professionally for a variety of media;teach video production in L.A.

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Re: HDV archive
by Mike Cohen on Jun 25, 2009 at 4:20:15 am

You could render back to HDV tape. Takes a while to render but then you have a tape - or make 2. Sure it's HDV but that is a lot better than a dead hard drive.

Mike Cohen

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Re: HDV archive
by Zane Barker on Jun 29, 2009 at 6:37:28 pm

[Mike Cohen] "You could render back to HDV tape"

Not the best option it would add another level of compression on the video.

[Mike Cohen] "Sure it's HDV but that is a lot better than a dead hard drive"

Hard drives are dirt cheep these days. By a hard drive dock and a couple of bare hard drives, and simply put the same master file on both drives, that way if one drive dies you still have the other.



There are no "technical solutions" to your "artistic problems".
Don't let technology get in the way of your creativity!



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Re: HDV archive
by Jerry Alto on Jun 25, 2009 at 11:19:04 pm

Craig- I edit and archive most of my projects in HDV. Of course I use the ProRes render control option in the sequence settings in FCP. I also have a Kona LH on my Final Cut system so it gives me lots of options for tape output. I archive by exporting an HDV native quicktime movie. I then use Toast to archive on regular DVD-R. Toast lets you spread your file over multiple dvds and puts the software on the disks to re-build the file when its needed again . Blu-ray is nice but at $10 a disk verses $.10 for dvd-r its not much of a choice.

HTH,

Jerry

G5 Dual 3GB Ram
FCP Studio 6.02
External 1 TB SATA Raid 0
Kona LH, Second system w AJA ioLA
Sony Z-1
GV-HD700

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Re: HDV archive
by Craig Alan on Jun 26, 2009 at 1:17:56 am

Thanks Jerry,

I agree on blue ray. If it were more common the price would come down. But question:

don't you loose the benefits of prores when you export using hdv. Editing should be faster in prores and you start with and end with hdv so no loss there, but don't you loose the increase in quality of graphics, titles, and certain effects?

OSX 10.5.3; MAC PRO 2 X 2.8 GHZ (EARLY 2008); FCP Suite; Sony camcorder vx2000/pd170;Canon xl2; Pana consumer cams; write professionally for a variety of media;teach video production in L.A.

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Re: HDV archive
by Jerry Alto on Jun 26, 2009 at 3:57:43 am

Craig- Don't you loose the benefits of prores when you export using hdv?

Good question. I've gone down the path (and the assumption) that if I shoot, edit and export in HDV native I can't keep it any cleaner. Except for the added graphics and effects I have a clone of what I shot.

But just what does the FCP 'render in ProRes' option do? I assume that every video render in the HDV timeline is rendered in ProRes... but when it is exported the ProRes is conformed to HDV. So I have the best of both worlds..... no re-compression on my basic clips and a clean codec on my video effects. And I have a very small file size.

I digitize, edit and export in ProRes (an intraframe codec) when I know I'm going to have lots of layered graphics and effects to speed up the editing process, not for quality.

I may be off base here. I hope someone jumps in an corrects me if I'm wrong.
Jerry

G5 Dual 3GB Ram
FCP Studio 6.02
External 1 TB SATA Raid 0
Kona LH, Second system w AJA ioLA
Sony Z-1
GV-HD700

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Re: HDV archive
by Jim McNally on Jul 4, 2009 at 4:18:27 am

I'm contemplating on moving up from an SD workflow. Currently tape remains my archive and if the media is removed from the computer a simple batch capture will reload all my clips in the original timeline.

If I record to a CF card and simultaneously to tape I will have instant file access and an archive. However if I remove the media and no longer have the CF card files the tape won't be much use will it? All the footage will be there but in raw form and not loaded by clip. Or will the timecode sync to the timecode from the original CF file and load the tape to the appropriate position?

Jim McNally
The Commercial Factory
www.commercialfactory.com

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Re: HDV archive
by Christopher Kinsman on Jul 4, 2009 at 5:45:33 am

Why not media manage the final sequence to a new "finished" project with media with 1 sec heads and tails. Then drop that project file and media files into Toast "data disc" and use disc span with double density (8gb) discs as your 10 to 15 year storage platform. At 30 cents a disc or so you'd use 3 discs per 30 minute program in a DVCPRO HD or similar codec. There are 10+ disc amray cases that make a neat package for your archive. Whenever you need the project, just load those discs up 1 by 1 and viola - old project back at your fingertips. Best of Luck,
Chris



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