V1 24pA to Pro Res issue
by Rick Pratt
on
Aug 21, 2008 at 2:55:28 am
I've got a large project that will require mixing HDV footage shot on the V1 with HDCam footage. The primary issue that I haven't solved yet is getting the HDV footage ingested at 23.98. I've been told that the HDV was shot in the 24pA mode and that by using the HDV to Pro Res Easy setup, the footage would automatically be transcoded to 23.98 out of the 60i that it is showing up as. I've tried using the Easy setup and digitized both a small chunk of footage as well as the hour-long tape and both times it came in as 29.97. Is there any special steps that I'm missing? The Capture Preset for HDV to Pro Res won't allow me to edit the settings, so I'm assuming that there's nothing special I can do there. I'm wondering if perhaps the footage wasn't shot in 24pA but rather straight 24p... would that account for my inability to get it into FCP as 23.98? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Re: V1 24pA to Pro Res issue by Michael Palmer on Aug 21, 2008 at 3:49:38 am
What is the computer model you are using. it must be an Intel or a PPC Quad unit to transcode to PR. Open the Audio/Video Setting and set Capture Preset to HDV-Apple Pro Rez 422.
Re: V1 24pA to Pro Res issue by Rick Pratt on Aug 21, 2008 at 4:02:03 am
It is a PPC Quad. And I did use that capture preset. The footage came in, and looked good, but was 29.97 instead of 23.98 and that's what I need to get it to.
Re: V1 24pA to Pro Res issue by Rick Pratt on Aug 22, 2008 at 7:17:13 pm
OK... so I hooked up my Sony HVR 1500 deck connected to my 3Ghz Dual Intel Mac running OS 10.4.11 on FCP 6.0.3, put in my HDV tape after downloading and installing the easy setup that Lee provided a link to (HDV to Pro Rez HQ Sony 1080pA24) selected log and capture and anxiously held my breath as I took a short clip in and then checked its stats and it still said 29.97 as the frame rate in the item properties. Is this normal? Just for kicks, I put it into a timeline that had the 23.98 frame rate. It had the green render line at the top, so after rendering I watched it and it didn't have any of the weird motion that a 29.97 clip has in a 23.98 timeline... So... I'm not sure if it worked...
Re: V1 24pA to Pro Res issue by Lee Berger on Aug 22, 2008 at 7:55:38 pm
Rick,
If you had to render then the timeline probably doesn't match the clip. Check the sequence settings (CMD+0) to see if the editing timebase is 23.98. Also check the other settings to be sure the Frame size is 1440x1080, Pixel aspect ration 1440x1080, Compressor HDV 1080p24. When you put your first clip on the timeline did it ask you if you wanted to change the sequence setting to match the clip settings. If so you should click YES. I would create a new sequence and test this.
My 24pA to Pro Res Capture by Lee Berger on Aug 22, 2008 at 8:36:52 pm
O.K. I took a clip shot at Sony's 24pA and captured it to ProRes via Firewire and the properties show it as a 23.98 frame rate. I put it into a sequence and did not get a render bar. I captured using my V1U.
Are you sure that you original source is shot at 24pA. E-mail me and I'll send you a link to a 5 second clip you can try on your system. I think my e-mail in in my profile. If not it's on my website.
Re: V1 24pA to Pro Res issue by Michael Palmer on Aug 21, 2008 at 1:39:54 pm
FCP 6.0.2 is when they added the support to remove the pulldown. What are you running?
Have you tried to trash the FC preferences and reset the disk permissions?
Re: V1 24pA to Pro Res issue by Nate Van Dusen on Aug 22, 2008 at 11:42:31 pm
I just looked through the Apple site to try and find the list of "supported" decks but could not find the document I saw a while ago when Final Cut Studio 2 came out. To be honest with you I have tried 2 decks and neither worked, one of which was supposed to be supported. I have heard that only the brand new(don't know model number off hand sorry) Sony Deck as well as their soon to be released one actually work. Sorry for not having solid deck info but the only way myself or 3 people I know have gotten the auto pulldown removal to work is capturing straight from the camera... ugh. I am in the middle of capturing 120hrs of footage, not exactly great for a camera.
Re: V1 24pA to Pro Res issue by Rick Pratt on Aug 23, 2008 at 12:45:50 am
Eeesh! I feel your pain. I hate pulling from a camera. Oh well, I'll see if I can't get a deck that works or at the very least a V1 camera to use. I only have about 40 minutes of footage to capture. Thanks everyone (Lee, Nate, Michael) for your input. It actually helped me a great deal.
Re: V1 24pA to Pro Res issue by Peter von Puttkamer on Sep 6, 2008 at 8:28:01 pm
Hi. I've been reading this communication with great interest. I have a Sony V1U 1080 24p workflow issue I'm trying to resolve. Did you say there is a pulldown solution in FCP? I've tried using Cinema Tools to do this- and it does work some of the time- once you've figured out the right combination of frames/etc..
I have a few shots I need to pull from my Sony V1U- shot in 1080 24p- not 24pa. The rest of the show is HDX-900 onto a full size 1920 x 1080 HD 23.98 timeline. That footage looks great. The HDV looks grainy/digital block - not smooth, plus there are movement issues. I have tried loading in- every way- firewire not an option, because of 24p (unless I use cinema tools to remove pulldown); SDI- Kona Card- uncompressed, Pro Res 422 and 422 HQ; so far DVC PRO HD looks the best. But none of it really satisfactory. Someone on a another forum suggested using Sony Vegas, which ingests the V1u footage easily- then convert to .mxf for ingestion into Final Cut. But I haven't been able to get FCP to read this format.
If you know of a way to input- thru Kona Card SDI or any other method this Sony V1U footage (which looks fine on the HD monitor played off the camera BTW) to be input- and pulldown removed, please let me know- it's very frustrating!
Re: V1 24pA to Pro Res issue by Rick Pratt on Sep 6, 2008 at 9:08:29 pm
Is the footage true 24p or 23.98? I found that coming in through firewire using the Easy Setup that Lee provided a link to (HDV 1080 24pA to Pro Rez) worked well. My issue was the 24aP footage which seems only a V1 camera as a source will fix, but otherwise, the HDV footage looked great in the 1080 timeline with the HDCam next to it (no blockiness) I've never tried converting to mxf, so no help there...
Re: V1 24pA to Pro Res issue by Peter von Puttkamer on Sep 6, 2008 at 10:04:48 pm
Thanks for your reply Rick. Yes I believe it's 23.98p, but not PA. It's actually playing back fine on that Vegas system I just tested too.
I'm capturing off the Sony V1U - going thru an convergent design box- HDMI- to SDI thru the Kona 3 card- then it only seems to input at 29.97. I guess the question is, is there a way using these new settings provided on the site- to extract the 3:2 pulldown in FCP? Or is it still a trial and error exercise through the Cinema Tools - which I've been trying and getting some decent results- though not consistantly- fast movement, still shows up blurring, on a 23.98 timeline.
Re: V1 24pA to Pro Res issue by Rick Pratt on Sep 7, 2008 at 4:28:31 am
Just to verify, you're trying to put 23.98 1080 HDV footage into a 1080 23.98 timeline that also has Full 1920 x 1080 footage in it... so it seems to me that you should be able to come into FCP via firewire and capture directly to Pro Rez and stay 23.98 and not have any motion issues. Going through the convergence box into a kona card that makes it 29.97 is where the problems come in, and I'm not sure, but I don't think the kona is actually applying a 3:2 pulldown, so when you try and remove the pulldown in cinema tools, you're getting less than satisfactory results. I do use a kona 3 card all the time and you should be able to keep the footage in a 23.98 frame rate unless that convergence box is tweaking the rate and making the kona card see 29.97 (then it won't allow you to choose 23.98) Unless I'm missing something, you should be able to go in directly through firewire and use an Easy Setup for HDV 23.98.
Re: V1 24pA to Pro Res issue by Peter von Puttkamer on Sep 7, 2008 at 7:26:03 pm
Yes thanks, in firewire 23.98 capture- when I drop it into the sequence it lights up green; so it needs some rendering (I presume to bump up to full HD) but then there are motion artifacts visible- both on the main player screen (apple monitor) and my TV monitor- which requires a 29.97 playback off the timeline to view. For whatever reason- it won't let me input thru the HDMI-SDI- Kona Card at 23.98. Only 29.97.
One of the experts here in the forum- suggested the convergent design hdmi- to SDI box as the way to go for best image results off HDV.
Re: V1 24pA to Pro Res issue by Rick Pratt on Sep 7, 2008 at 10:33:41 pm
Sounds like something in your signal path is getting altered, making the Kona see a 29.97 frame rate... Another option would be to use a deck like the Sony HVR 1500 that supports HDV and has an HD SDI output, so you can go directly into the Kona and choose whatever codec you want (that's how I do it).
