DOF Adapter and optics for a Sony FX1?

	Re: DOF Adapter and optics for a Sony FX1? by Todd Terry on Jun 13, 2008 at 2:23:42 pm [Simon Dybeck] "Do you really need to see the picture upside down in the camera?" Well... yes and no. Back when DoF adapters were first coming into use, only the really high-end ones (P+S Technik, MovieTube) recorded a correctly-oriented image. All of the cheap ones and even the lower-mid-priced one (Redrock) recorded an upside-down image. You either had to flip the image in post and put your location monitors upside down, or rig the camera upside down (usually applicable only with very small cameras). However, today some of the low-priced ones do offer "flip enhanced" versions, or sell a "flip module" that goes between the adapter and the camera which re-orients the image correctly. [Simon Dybeck] " Isn't there a great chance that the focus or picture is a bit bad" Yes, actually quite a good chance of that. That's why with DoF converters it is super critical to set them up first in a controlled situation... using a good HD monitor and a chart (like a Seimans chart) to ensure that focus on the groundglass is razor sharp and that framing is right (or, if you are using a high-end unit like the P+S Technik, that the backfocus is correct). Also you will learn with extremely shallow depths of field that focus is super critical, and that your fairly low-res viewfinder is not completely trustworthy for focusing. If you have to focus by eye, it helps to have an HD monitor on set (a true HD monitor, not one of the little LCDs that say they are high-def but really only display 480 lines). Keep in mind that with a 50mm or longer lens you can get a DoF down as shallow as a couple of inches so, again, focus is super critical. I shoot with my XLH1 and a P+S Techinik Mini35 almost everyday, and we still focus the old fashion "Hollywood" way... with a tape measure. Actually, we high-tech it a bit, with a Stanley "Fat Max" laser tape, which is really great (about $100 at Home Depot or Lowes). Because of the new focus challenges, a good follow-focus unit is also very helpful, if not a necessity. The fairly inexpenive ones (a DP buddy of mine calls them "Fisher Price" follow focuses) work, but they will have some slop (backlash) in them. Unfortunately the really decent FF units are fairly pricy. I haven't checked prices in a while, but I'm not sure if any of the "flip versions" of DoF converters are within your budget if you want to stick ith $1500 for the converter and optics. I believe you are probably going to have to settle for one of the least expensive non-flip units (Brevis or Letus) and maybe one hopefully decent but very price conscious zoom to get within that price point. Not ideal, but still very definitely doable and I've seen good images come out of combos like that. Remember that everything you shoot has to go through that very first piece of glass, so lenses aren't the place to cut too many corners. You might look for a DoF unit that has a swappable mount (to PL mount) so that you can rent real cine lenses for more critical projects. T2 __________________________________ Todd Terry Creative Director Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc. fantasticplastic.com Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: DOF Adapter and optics for a Sony FX1? by Todd Terry on Jun 13, 2008 at 2:48:55 pm [Michael Palmer] "IMO these adapters are only useful in a very limited situations" Well it's not math so there are no right and wrong answers, but I must humbly disagree with that. I use a DoF converter almost every day (P+S Mini35), and admit that we rarely if ever even take it off the camera. It just depends on what you are shooting and how you are used to working. Guys who are used to shooting film (especially 35mm) will take to it like a duck to water... there is almost zero learning curve there... you frame, light, move, block, composite just like you were shooting with a film camera. For shooters that come from a pure video world, the curve is a bit steeper... but one that is overcome very quickly. For us, using a DoF converter has been one of the most-life changing parts of our business. I've shot zillions of feet of film through the years, even shooting lower-budget "mom and pop" television commercials on 35mm becuase I love the look. However, since we started DoF converting a couple of years ago our film cameras haven't made it out of their cases even once. I've sold off the 16mm gear, and although I'm hanging on to the 35mm gear, it's just never used. It was a bit of an exponentially expensive proposition to jump into the deep end with, as we first bought the camera (XLH1), then the converter which was a lot more expensive than the camera, and then a set of primes which was more than the converter and camera... but I must say that it has been by far the wisest investment we have ever made and the rig paid for itself very very quickly. Once you get used to and comfortable with DoF conversion and doing it quickly, it's no more trouble or time-consuming that shooting "regular" video. I can shoot with a DoF coverter almost as fast as without it (only lens-changing slows me down), and I can shoot with it a heckuva lot faster than shooting 35mm. T2 __________________________________ Todd Terry Creative Director Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc. fantasticplastic.com Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: DOF Adapter and optics for a Sony FX1? by Todd Terry on Jun 13, 2008 at 5:42:10 pm You will find mixed reviews on the very inexpensive ones. I've seen some good footage from both the Brevis35 and the Letus35... but there are also reports of difficulty of use and have seen some not-so-good footage as well. You just have to remember that these are very inexpensive versions of what is fairly precision optical equipment... so a lot of times you get what you pay for. Luckily, sometimes you get more, but you can't really expect that to always be the case. [Simon Dybeck] "If we would purchase a Laser that would check the distance how could we set these numbers on the camera focus when we have such a mixed setup with the camera lens and the optics on the DoF?" The laser or any tape measure is used to focus the FRONT lens, ONLY. It is measured from the subject to the "film plane," which is the point where the image resolves on the groundglass inside the DoF unit. If you measure to the front of the lens, or front of a matte box or whatever... your measurement is several inches short. With a very shallow DoF, those few inches will make the difference in a sharp image and a soft one, especially at longer focal lengths. The camera's native lens (assuming you use a camera without a removable lens) is focused only on the groundglass. In a perfect world you would focus this once and never have to move it again. Here is another kink as far as focusing by distance goes... people will often, especially with the lower-end converters, use plain 'ol still camera SLR lenses on them. They do work... but while the distance engravings on a real collimated cinema lens are usually highly accurate, the distance marks on an SLR lens (especially an inexpensive one) might NOT be. Sometimes they are off... and sometimes by quite a bit. If these are the types of lenses that you wish you use, it is definitely worth it to check the focuses with a good monitor and a tape measure at several differences to make sure the markings are absolutely correct. If they are not, you can re-mark the lens. This is especially critical because SLR lenses are much more difficult to focus (especially pulling focus on a moving subject)... with a real cine lens you have to make almost a full barrel turn to go from near to infinity, but with an SLR lens the distance of travel is very short (if I remember correctly, with Nikkors it is 1/5th of a turn)... so when such a shallow DoF you want to make sure going in that your images are razor sharp. I'm not trying to be discouraging, I hope it doesn't come across that way. DoF conversion can be a super cool tool... I use it every day. But I also know of many people who have become frustrated on a shoot because the unit didn't work like they expected or it was hard to use... sometimes because they didn't do all the needed prep, testing, and practice beforehand. T2 __________________________________ Todd Terry Creative Director Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc. fantasticplastic.com Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: DOF Adapter and optics for a Sony FX1? by Todd Terry on Jun 14, 2008 at 3:21:38 pm [Simon Dybeck] "I...do you just need to practice?" Practice, practice, practice. Using a DoF converter means you are shooting as if one of the big boys shooting film with a 35mm camera... and yes, that indeed means manual focus just as the good lord intended. Focusing on a static subject is relatively easy... just use a tape measure. But rack focusing from one object to another, or follow focusing on a moving subject is an art in itself. With medium and longer lenses with low f-stops you will have a very shallow DoF, and it becomes critical to focus well and keep the subject sharp. I've been doing it for about a decade and a half and would say i'm pretty good at it, but there are some real pros out there who are great at pulling focus. [Simon Dybeck] "Is there anything you can do bout this...?" Aside from a lot of practice, there are a couple of things that can make it easier. First, use real cinema lenses rather than SLR lenses if you can. Because you have to turn them a lot farther, it's much easier... with an SLR lens only a tiny tiny turn is going to make a big difference. Secondly, use a follow focus unit. It's much easier to turn the wheel of a FF unit than it is to reach all the way around the front and turn the lens. Plus you can make marks on the FF's dial at your different focus points. Like most everything else, the cheap FF units work fair, the expensive ones work well. You want one that has as little "slop" (backlash) in the gearbox as possible (that's what makes the ultra-cheap ones almost useless). Thirdly, don't always try to do everything yourself. If you are on a small-crew or no-crew job, you may already be wearing a lot of hats: producer, director, DP, and camera operator. Pulling focus is another difficult (and critical) job to add to that list. So sometimes it is of great benefit to have a focus puller... a crew member who is responsible for that. He stands beside the camera and he (or she) pulls focus for you, so you don't have to. Not to be mean, but the fact that you said that it "just occured to you" that you won't have auto focus lets me know that you do not have any experience with shooting with a DoF converter or with real film. There's nothing wrong with that... we all have to start somewhere. But it makes me want to really emphasize to you that there are a lot of factors to consider when doing this type of shooting... one would never expect that someone who had only shot handycam video be able to jump in and shoot 35mm film well, and this is pretty much the equivalent of that. So do not plan to get your first DoF converter a few days before you start a big or critical project. Get it well in advance... play with it... learn what it can do and its limitations. Even though it's still video, you are now going to be composing, directing, blocking, moving, lighting, and focusing just as if it were film... and thats a transition that takes a fair little bit of work to do well. And ask questions... the only dumb questions are the ones that you didn't ask that come back to bite you in the butt later. T2 __________________________________ Todd Terry Creative Director Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc. fantasticplastic.com Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: DOF Adapter and optics for a Sony FX1? by Ernie Santella on Jun 15, 2008 at 1:16:17 pm There's lots of crazy things you can do to improve the little Sony's. You could perform this mount modification for Prime lenses. There's a guy in Italy that will do it for you. http://www.eidomedia.com/hdve/ And or do the "Ernie" mod to improve the zoom. Not sure about you guys, but the zoom on the FX/Z1 blows. I modded mine with an old J6 unit. Now, I can do do smooth, perfectly ramped zooms! Also, note the 90 degree mount for a special project were all the video was for Plasmas that were at a trade show mounted 90 degrees. We shot and edited the entire video that way - crazy framing some shots I tell 'ya! http://www.santellaproductions.com/rick/cam2.jpg Ernie Santella Santella Film/Video Productions www.santellaproductions.com Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index