Re: HVX200 & Sony GV-HD700 Walkman workflow by Jerry Alto on Apr 19, 2008 at 6:18:32 pm
Jose- The HVX200 doesn't record in HDV so I am making the presumption it wont PLAY HDV. Are you saying that you are trying to loop the 1080i signal from the HVX200 thru firewire into the 700 and record in HDV in the 700? Wow... that's interesting. I think you would know instantly if the HVX200 picture shows up on the 700's LCD screen. There are issues like HDV is actually 1440x1080 which is scaled to 1920x1080. The HVX200 shoots in true 1920x1080. Hey, let us know if you are able to get it to work.
Jerry
G5 Dual 3GB Ram
FCP5 Studio
External 1 TB SATA Raid 0
Kona LH, Second system w AJA ioLA
Sony Z-1
Re: HVX200 & Sony GV-HD700 Walkman workflow by Douglas Spotted Eagle on Apr 19, 2008 at 6:45:50 pm
The HVX200 shoots in true 1920x1080.
...no, it does not. Not even close. In fact, the HVX200 offers the smallest imager and smallest recorded stream of *any* HD camcorder manufactured, including the junk Sanyo MPEG4 pocket recorders.
Additionally, the HVX cannot output an MPEG stream from the 1394 port, as this camcorder has no video output over the 1394 port other than DV, and even if it did, it does not offer an MPEG encoder/decoder in the camera. Therefore, it cannot play back nor record (nor output) an MPEG stream.
Video input to the GV-HD700 is composite-only, and digital input to the GV-HD700 is iLink only. You will not be able to record an HD stream with this unit.
Douglas Spotted Eagle
VASST
Certified Sony Vegas Trainer
Aerial Camera/Instructor
Re: HVX200 & Sony GV-HD700 Walkman workflow by Jose Alvarez on Apr 19, 2008 at 7:55:41 pm
I think you are right,
I've been trying all the combinations of settings and no way....
It does not happen,
So given that my client need the content delivered on HDV and since I already have the
700; what would be the workflow in order to do it via Final Cut Pro...
How to input to Final Cut Pro from P2 cards(which I will have to buy) and
then output into the deck....
Or what solution would you suggest for my hdv delivery given that I have an HVX200 ?
Re: HVX200 & Sony GV-HD700 Walkman workflow by Jerry Alto on Apr 19, 2008 at 8:30:01 pm
Jose- First, Douglas, thanks for the correction on 'true 1080i'.... I was going down the road of the camera putting out a 1080i signal (not recording it) and then the 700 seeing that signal via firewire and being able to record it in HDV. My bad. When I plug my Z-1 (camera mode) into my 700 via firewire the picture shows on the 700 LCD and the 700 can record it.
So Jose, if you have to use the HVX then you need to bring the footage into FCP with the camera's native DVCProHD codec, edit then copy and paste into a HDV sequence. I am sure you'll have some rendering/conforming time but then you'll be able to output HDV to the deck via firewire print-to-tape.
HTH,
Jerry
G5 Dual 3GB Ram
FCP5 Studio
External 1 TB SATA Raid 0
Kona LH, Second system w AJA ioLA
Sony Z-1
Re: HVX200 & Sony GV-HD700 Walkman workflow by Tim Kolb on Apr 20, 2008 at 1:50:12 pm
[Jerry Alto]"My bad. When I plug my Z-1 (camera mode) into my 700 via firewire the picture shows on the 700 LCD and the 700 can record it."
Yes, that's because the Z1 is outputing a signal that the 700 understands...HDV MPEG. The HVX200 outputs the stream that it creates...the DVCProHD stream, from the FW port.
[Jerry Alto]"So Jose, if you have to use the HVX then you need to bring the footage into FCP with the camera's native DVCProHD codec, edit then copy and paste into a HDV sequence. I am sure you'll have some rendering/conforming time but then you'll be able to output HDV to the deck via firewire print-to-tape."
This would be possible, but the footage will really take a beating. These two compression schemes aren't very compatible and first compressing to DVCProHD from an interpolated image from a relatively low res imager (as Douglas points out), then re-compressing to long GOP MPEG to HDV (a format typically acquired on a higher res imager) won't do your image quality any favors.
If possible, in the future for this client, I'd rent an HDV camera and shoot tape.
I think I'd sell the Sony 700 while its relatively new as it has (as Douglas also points out) no real application for an HVX user...
Re: HVX200 & Sony GV-HD700 Walkman workflow by Jerry Alto on Apr 20, 2008 at 7:29:30 pm
Tim-
[Tim Kolb] "the Z1 is outputing a signal that the 700 understands...HDV"
The Z-1 camera head puts out 1080i video. I just tested it on my LCD HD monitor via the component out.... not as playback but as a live feed. Are you saying that the camera head is outputting the HD as an HDV stream because it is coming out firewire? Or is it converted to HDV when it is recorded and then played back through firewire? This would be good to know.
Also notice that I said, "HAVE to use the HVX." I agree with you that Jose has a real mismatch with the HVX and the 700. If the client is important enough maybe he should sell the HVX and go with an HDV camera.
Jerry
G5 Dual 3GB Ram
FCP5 Studio
External 1 TB SATA Raid 0
Kona LH, Second system w AJA ioLA
Sony Z-1
Re: HVX200 & Sony GV-HD700 Walkman workflow by Tim Kolb on Apr 20, 2008 at 10:34:51 pm
[Jerry Alto]"Are you saying that the camera head is outputting the HD as an HDV stream because it is coming out firewire? Or is it converted to HDV when it is recorded and then played back through firewire? This would be good to know."
The firewire output of any camcorder is a data line...it transfers encoded video as a data stream. The only way to "record" it is to have a device that understands that data stream. The Sony 700 device is a DV/HDV device and the only HD input is the firewire. There is no analog component input and Svideo and composite video cannot carry an HD signal.
HDMI or SDI or analog component are general formats that are able to interconnect and be read by most devices assuming they have the proper inputs/outputs.
Re: HVX200 & Sony GV-HD700 Walkman workflow by Douglas Spotted Eagle on Apr 20, 2008 at 10:37:47 pm
The Z1 has a few output options;
For live use:
--Component output, which is 4:2:2 uncompressed at 1920 x 1080
--iLink/1394 output, which is 4:2:0 MPEG, 1440 x 1080, 25Mbps
--Composite output, SD only.
Recorded output:
--Component output, which is upconverted 1920 x 1080 uncompressed (but derived from a 4:2:0 MPEG tape source recorded at 1440 x 1080 25Mbps
--iLink/1394 output, which is 4:2:0 MPEG, 1440 x 1080, 25Mbps
--Composite output, SD only.
In other words, nothing changes between a live output and a recorded output on anything but the component output. Over iLink it is *always* 1440 x 1080 @25Mbps/MPEG.
Douglas Spotted Eagle
VASST
Certified Sony Vegas Trainer
Aerial Camera/Instructor
Re: HVX200 & Sony GV-HD700 Walkman workflow by Jerry Alto on Apr 20, 2008 at 11:36:06 pm
Jose- As Tim says above you may have quality issues on your codec conversions inside FCP. I would suggest you test, test, test. Do you have an I/O card for your FCP system? I know AJA has an HDV workflow where you can connect via your HD component out of the HVX.
Re: HVX200 & Sony GV-HD700 Walkman workflow by Michael Palmer on Apr 21, 2008 at 1:23:40 pm
After reading this entire thread I can't imagine why you would need HDV on tape as the delivery method, who is taking HDV tape delivery and why are you trying so hard to transcode DVC Pro HD to HDV? You need to map out your workflow based on delivery needs. If you're thinking that this inexpensive HDV deck will give you an HD delivery solution using the HVX 200 as your source recorder you might want to rethink it. HDV and DVC Pro HD are NOT deliverable standards for broadcast. The only reason I can see for this method would be to archive the project so you can have a decent inexpensive ($2 TAPE) copy that should out last any hard drive.
Re: HVX200 & Sony GV-HD700 Walkman workflow by Jose Alvarez on Apr 21, 2008 at 1:45:53 pm
Hello
Withing a freelance strategy to optimize my resources and yet stay in the market as a DP package; I decided to sell my DVX100 and upgrade to HVX200. All of my clients take delivieries that I can satisfy with HVX, but only one, and not very
"big yet"; wants hdv delivered. At the beginning of the negotiation they wanted tapes but as discussion went back and forth we came up with the option of
delivering hdv quicktimes stored on dvds.
That is where I am today. the only missing parts to balance the formula are
the optimum hdv settings for fcp timeline, so I can export hdv QTs with
the best quality and smallest size.
aaahh and also sell the HD700 sony VCR, to gather money and but P2 real estate.
Re: HVX200 & Sony GV-HD700 Walkman workflow by Douglas Spotted Eagle on Apr 21, 2008 at 1:49:41 pm
Given that you want to output HDV, you don't get to "choose" a "smallest files size." HDV is a CBR format at 19Mbps for 720p and 25Mbps for 1080i/p footage. It's that simple.
Can you provide the reason you want HDV from an HVX?
As Michael and Tim point out, you're losing quality in the transcode from DVCProHD to HDV. HDV is larger image, so you're upscaling, and you're upscaling from an already compromised source by comparison.
If your client wants HDV, then that's fine as a delivery tool, but as Michael also points out, you likely are missing the most efficient workflow.
It should probably be clarified that there actually are broadcasters now accepting HDV as a delivery format, although it's more the exception than the rule. D5 and HDCAM are still the two acceptable delivery formats for HD content.
If your client merely wants HDV delivery, and earlier you asked about DVDs, then you don't need the HD700 at all. Just print to HDD or print to DVD. I'd never accept HDV on a DVD for anything, but that's just me. I'd demand a small USB HDD instead. Cheap, fast, easy. And editable if I'm forced to do so.
That said, I'm starting to wonder if you understand what HDV is, or if it's just a term for compressed HD that you're using improperly?
Douglas Spotted Eagle
VASST
Certified Sony Vegas Trainer
Aerial Camera/Instructor
