EX1 and iLink HDV
by Aaron Cadieux
on
Feb 21, 2008 at 5:49:01 am
Hey all,
Just got my EX1 today! Now, maybe I'm missing something here, but I want to use the EX1 as a deck. I have "enabled" the iLink, and shot some footage in 1080i SD (HDV) mode. I captued the clips into Premier 2.0 successfully. Now, I want to be able to play the clips in Premier and have them come up on the LCD of the EX1 while in "media" mode. All I have on the EX1 right now is a blue screen in "media" mode. What do I need to do here?
Re: EX1 and iLink HDV by charlie steiner on Feb 21, 2008 at 3:16:22 pm
as far as I know, no NLE allows for real time preview of HDV via firewire without additional software/hardware. you should check with adobe or a premiere pro forum on what you need. I edit HDV on both Avid and Premiere and just use the editing monitor until it's finished and output back to tape to be able to play it on an external HD monitor. by the way, HDV is not SD.
- charlie
Located in the heart of Fabulous Downtown Jersey City
Re: EX1 and iLink HDV by Aaron Cadieux on Feb 21, 2008 at 3:53:43 pm
I know that SD is not HDV or vice versa. For some reason, with the EX1, Sony differenciates between the XDCAM codec and the HDV codec by calling them "1080 HQ" (for XDCAM) and "1080 SD" (for HDV). It is a bit strange if I say so myself.
It's not possible. I don't believe any file-based camcorder can offer this. You need an external monitor, and either downconvert to DV for firewire-out, use a second monitor and monitor over DVI, or have a hardware solution that allows for realtime preview of the HD content on an external HD monitor.
Douglas Spotted Eagle
VASST
Certified Sony Vegas Trainer
Aerial Camera/Instructor
Re: EX1 and iLink HDV by Aaron Cadieux on Feb 21, 2008 at 3:45:47 pm
Thanks for your reply. So it is impossible for me to go out of Premiere through firewire to the camera to use the camera's LCD to preview Premiere's HDV playback in real time?
Is it also impossible for me to go out of Premiere through firewire to the camera, and then out of the camera to an HD monitor to preview in real time?
The only reason I ask this, is because before I had my DSR-11 DV deck, I used to use my Sony VX2000 as a "deck". In those days, I could used the VX2000's LCD for real time preview, or I could go from Premiere to the VX2000 to an external monitor for real time preview. Why would the EX1 be unable to serve as an HD "deck"? Isn't that kind of stupid?
If you could stream HDV in real-time over firewire, then yes, it probably could be construed as "stupid." But since you cannot stream HDV over firewire in realtime from the NLE, I don't see it that way, but can understand how you might.
EX1 isn't a firewire-based camcorder anyway, it has a pipe on it to use as an alternative spigot, but that's not it's primary means of transporting data.
No HDV camcorder can be "used as a deck" in the manner you're looking for.
HDV and filebased cameras are for acquisition only. Once it's on tape or card, it's not expected that in a professional production environment, that the data will be put back to that format. HD is only deliverable on HDCAM, D5, HDD, Blu-ray, or as a file format on a DVD. You cannot deliver (and it's not a good idea to archive) these formats back to HDV, as you're compressing 35Mbps to 25Mbps, and increasing risk of loss when going to a tape-based format of any kind).
it's not a Sony, Adobe, or any other "brand thing" but rather a format/spec parameter. If you want real-time HD preview, then you have many options, but using the firewire out from your computer to a firewire in on a camera used as a D to A, isn't one of them.
Douglas Spotted Eagle
VASST
Certified Sony Vegas Trainer
Aerial Camera/Instructor
Re: EX1 and iLink HDV by Chris Babbitt on Feb 21, 2008 at 5:01:03 pm
I'm confused myself on this. If you refer to page 115 of the EX manual, it clearly states that "The HDV stream from a device connected via the i-LINK connector can be recorded on the memory card in the camcorder." It also states that the incoming signal can be viewed on the camera's monitor. I have tried it myself, using the firewire output from my Mac, with no success. Is there a difference in the output from a deck or other "device?"
Re: EX1 and iLink HDV by Michael Slowe on Feb 21, 2008 at 5:21:23 pm
Now, there's something wrong here. I am about to get the EX1 on the premise that I will be able to shoot in the SP mode, (NOT SD) which is HDV and send this down firewire to my HDV M10 deck where it can go onto tape as video. I have been informed somewhere on The Cow that this is possible. The reason for this is that my edit system (Media 100) cannot yet handle the EX1 codec but I hope my route is only short term. To correct someone on this thread I am told the HDV picture quality shot in SP mode is very good, although obviously not as good as the full res in HQ mode. I know this has nothing to do with the original question about using the camera as a deck for viewing.
You can OUTPUT from the firewire pipe on the EX to anything that will accept a firewire input, ie; M10/15/25. do this to Xfer, archive, whatever.
What you CANNOT do, is input firewire to the EX1 and use it as a preview device.
Douglas Spotted Eagle
VASST
Certified Sony Vegas Trainer
Aerial Camera/Instructor
Re: EX1 and iLink HDV by Michael Slowe on Feb 21, 2008 at 5:37:34 pm
Thanks Douglas, I am relieved to see that. I reckon it's a decent half way house to the real deal pending everyone sorting out the file options. Do you agree?
I must be missing something, because I cannot find in the EX manual, where it says you can stream live HDV from your NLE into the EX1, and preview that live stream on the LCD or external monitor.
Could you point me to the source? for the sake of being certain of myself, I'm trying it right now with Vegas and Edius, and cannot get a live HDV stream from the timeline of either product to view. And I'm unaware of any NLE that can do so.
Douglas Spotted Eagle
VASST
Certified Sony Vegas Trainer
Aerial Camera/Instructor
Re: EX1 and iLink HDV by Chris Babbitt on Feb 21, 2008 at 6:18:15 pm
Page 115 in the EX manual. As I said in my post above, I can't get it to work either either, but I don't know how you could interpret the manual any other way.
Re: EX1 and iLink HDV by Michael Palmer on Feb 21, 2008 at 6:54:28 pm
Chris
Can you post what it says, I don't have the manual that came with my EX1 in hand and I'm not seeing anything on the PDF manual on page 115,
To clarify this thread the EX1 records in either SP mode (HDV) or HQ mode (XDCam 35 Mbs)
Confusion comes when people post SD for SP early in the thread.
Re: EX1 and iLink HDV by Chris Babbitt on Feb 21, 2008 at 7:06:57 pm
It's under the heading entitled Connecting an External Device (i-Link Connection) / Recording External Input Signals. It clearly states that "The HDV stream from a device connected via the i-LINK connector can be recorded on the memory card in the camcorder." It also states that the incoming signal can be viewed on the camera's monitor, and that the signal also is output at the Component and AV/ Out connectors. All SP modes (i.e. 1440x1080 /60i) are supported.
Re: EX1 and iLink HDV by Michael Palmer on Feb 21, 2008 at 8:10:10 pm
Connecting an External Device (i.LINK Connection) 113
Connecting External Devices
When an HDV-compatible video format (SP
1080/60i, SP 1080/50i, or SP 1080/24P) is
selected, you can record the same images as those
recorded on the memory card in this camcorder
on an external device connected to the
i.LINK(HDV) connector, or record the playback
picture of the external device on the memory card
in the camcorder.
Nonlinear editing conforming to the HDV format
is also enabled.
Notes
• When you set “i.LINK I/O” of the OTHERS
menu to “Enable,” no signal is output from the
SDI OUT connector.
• When a cable is connected to the i.LINK(HDV)
connector during playback, the display returns
to the thumbnail screen.
• Use the i.LINK(HDV) connector only for one-
to-one i.LINK connection.
When you set the camcorder to Camera mode, the
picture being shot with this camcorder is output as
an HDV stream via the i.LINK(HDV) connector.
It can be recorded on a connected HDV recorder
in synchronization with the REC START/STOP
operation on this camcorder.
1 Perform the preparatory settings of the
camcorder.
• Set the video format to SP 1080/60i, SP
1080/50i, or SP 1080/24P.
• Set “i.LINK I/O” (page 107) of the
OTHERS menu to “Enable.”
• Set “Trigger Mode” (page 108) of the
OTHERS menu to “Both” or “External.”
Both: To record both on the memory card
in the camcorder and on the external device
External: To record only on the external
device
2 Set the external device to recording
standby status.
For operations of the external device, refer to
the operation manual of that device.
3 Set the camcorder to Camera mode by
setting the power switch to CAMERA.
4 Press the REC START/STOP button.
The external device starts recording in
synchronization.
The status of the external device is displayed in
the i.LINK status indication area (page 18) on the
LCD monitor/EVF screen.
Notes
• Operation may be different depending on the
type of external device.
• Although there is some time lag from which you
press the REC START/STOP button until the
i.LINK status indication changes, the same
pictures are recorded on the memory card in this
camcorder and the external device if “Trigger
Mode” is set to “Both.”
• While you can record shot marks on the
memory card during recording, they are not
added to the pictures recorded on the external
device.
You can transfer an HDV stream to a nonlinear
editing system connected via the i.LINK(HDV)
connector.
Notes
• The i.LINK(HDV) connector of this camcorder
is a 4-pin connector. Check the number of pins
of the i.LINK connector on your computer and
use an appropriate i.LINK cable.
• In searching pictures of this camcorder on the
computer, it may take some time until the
display is reflected on the computer.
• If the playback clip is short or the playback
starting point is near the end of the clip, the
i.LINK signal may be interrupted between the
clip and the next clip. When you try to capture
Connecting an External
Device (i.LINK
Connection)
Recording the Camcorder Picture
on an External Device
Indication Status of the external device
STBY In HDV recording standby
zREC In HDV recording
Nonlinear Editing
HDV
HDV
Re: EX1 and iLink HDV by Chris Babbitt on Feb 21, 2008 at 8:23:27 pm
No Michael, I'm not talking about recording TO an external device, I mean recording FROM an external device. When you get home. open your manual to page 115.
Re: EX1 and iLink HDV by Charlie Steiner on Feb 22, 2008 at 7:48:19 pm
chris, according to your post above sony is talking about "The HDV stream from a device connected via the i-LINK connector." the point that others have made above is that a computer does not put out an HDV "stream" through firewire. it just doesn't stream this stuff and that's the way it is. sony is not misleading you - you are just misreading sony.
- charlie
Located in the heart of Fabulous Downtown Jersey City
Re: EX1 and iLink HDV by Nick Righton on Feb 22, 2008 at 9:45:32 pm
I might be wrong, but the manual does not say anything about a realtime preview during playback, it just states you can view captured material on the LCD and via component. I imagine that you can do this after capture only, not during.
Perhaps the easy way to settle this is chalk it up to a translation error from Japanese doc writers and English readers?
It recalls the HVR-V1U owners manual that had 24pSCNA, which had a couple magazine writers/reviewers up in arms for 3 months because they couldn't understand the "acronym." One guy insisted over and over that it was "Scan A" mode," or "Scan Advanced" mode, and wrote copiously on how "Scan A" mode worked. It was almost a conspiracy that Sony Broadcast "wouldn't comment" on SCNA.
Turned out to be a typo. "SCNA"="SCAN." Nothing of any great mystery.
Douglas Spotted Eagle
VASST
Certified Sony Vegas Trainer
Aerial Camera/Instructor
Re: EX1 and iLink HDV by David Smith on Mar 4, 2008 at 5:13:33 am
[Douglas Spotted Eagle]"Perhaps the easy way to settle this is chalk it up to a translation error from Japanese doc writers and English readers? "
Douglas, you bring back memories of shooting with the old Ikegami HL-33 and HL-35 "Color Handy Looky System". No kidding, that's what it said right on the metal ID tag showing the model and serial number.
