Intensity(Pro) vs CineForm
by kylesway
on
Sep 3, 2007 at 10:27:51 am
Hi all
I'm currently evaluating my options for HDV editing (1080i50).
I have started w/ PPro2's native HDV mode. With about 7-8h
worth of footage in the bins and several sequences, it has
gone very instable, and I'd like to have the "live" output
back (What the FireWire preview gave me for DV). In order to
be "more editable" in AfterEffects etc I'd like to go to an
intermediate codec. As the RTX2 is somewhat out of my current
budget as it is reported to be very picky about the machine
thus requiring a specialized one, I came up with the following
options:
1) Blackmagic Intensity (Pro):
- gives me output to HDMI/Component
- has a mjpeg intermediate codec
2) CineForm AspectHD:
- no output to HDMI/Component
- wavelet based codec (better than mjpeg)
Some questions I have / areas I'd like to know your experiences
with:
- Can both of these codes be used by "all" applications that
deal with video? (eg. converters; I need to convert my
.m2t files to the new codec)
- quality of the mjpeg codec compared to using native hdv.
(HDV native requires me to go non-HDV from AfterEffects,
and I cannot get ProCoder Express to create an HDV clip
that plays back "in real time" in PPro2 (as opposed to
clips that come from the camera via firewire)
- does PPro2 maintain stability, responsiveness etc with
those solutions?
- any other experience I should factor in my decision?
Primarily, I want to be able to work with HDV in PPro like
I could with DV thru firewire. Ie I'd like to have realtime
output to video projector / tv at least when rendered (not
export to tape which fails w/o message in my hdv project
right now). And I want to use a codec that works well with
AfterEffects. I cannot go uncompressed at the moment.
Hope this all makes sense, thanks a lot for your input!
Re: Intensity(Pro) vs CineForm by Uli Plank on Sep 4, 2007 at 3:27:27 pm
Since I'm working with Final Cut Pro, I can't really comment on your specific configuration. I just want to say that the Blackmagic Intensity with Apple's ProRes 422 works very well for me, realtime preview and visually lossless.
Best regards,
Uli
Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts
Re: Intensity(Pro) vs CineForm by Tim Kolb on Sep 4, 2007 at 4:22:35 pm
I believe that CineForm Aspect HD withe the Intensity card for ingest would be a good way to go. The edit responsiveness is far better with CineForm over HDV native, also the quality is maintained better than using HDV native, and gauging by the various codecs and how I've seen them compare to CineForm, I'd bet that the CineForm codec probably outperforms the MJPEG codec you mention.
CineForm AVIs also play with everything else (AE, ProCoder, etc) very easily.
Yes, it costs something of course, and the CineForm projects need to render non-native effects and transitions, but for me, the extra productivity is worth it.
Re: Intensity(Pro) vs CineForm by kylesway on Sep 4, 2007 at 4:43:37 pm
Hi all
thanks a lot for your replies!
For ingest, I'm quite happy with straight transfer thru firewire (I have the Sony FX1 which doesn't have HDMI, so there's nothing there to be gained by using the Intensity). I then have to transcode to CineForm/MJPEG anyway (CineForm has it's own capture tool as well).
From what I've heard CineForm definitely is the better codec. But is there an affordable way to get a (more or less) real time output of the CineForm timeline to projector/(video)monitor (component or hdmi; hdsdi is too expensive...)? Eg could I output a CineForm timeline to the Intensity during edit? Is using a secondary graphics card/port going to allow for accurate color correction etc? Would a Quadro FX 560 be better at this? I'm OK if this output only works in real time when the effects are rendered.
I expect having the following workflow: HDV(m2t) -(ingest)-> intermediate [-(after effects etc)-> intermediate] -(final render from PPro2)-> intermediate -(render for output to tape)-> HDV. I understand neither AfterEffects7 nor PPro2 can directly render to m2t, right?
Re: Intensity(Pro) vs CineForm by Tim Kolb on Sep 5, 2007 at 11:24:39 pm
I have now found out that CineForm only captures from the Intensity HDMI port with HD Link. Apparently there is no support from within Premiere to get playout.
The PNY Nvidia cards are good choices, or the Matrox Parhelia isn't bad as a dual-head UI/video monitor (3 heads total) card, but it has no Open GL acceleration like the Nvidia cards do.
Re: Intensity(Pro) vs CineForm by basspig on Sep 7, 2007 at 3:40:27 am
Quick question about the Cineform CODEC that comes with Intensity Pro... is this CODEC restricted to content coming in through Intensity Pro, or will it work with HDV via FireWire too?
Reason I ask is it appears that Premiere Pro's own HDV CODEC is fragile, and so much as deleting or moving a cache folder to another drive can render associated MPEG files permanently "media pending". I spent a week troubleshooting that issue after rebuilding my system drive and finding that my projects were mostly trashed because none of the footage would ever index.
If CineForm's CODEC takes over, then perhaps the Intensity Pro can kill two birds with one stone. How does the CODEC interact? Is it global to all apps, or tied to one, like the way it works in Vegas?
Take care,
Mark & Mary Ann Weiss
http://www.basspig.com The Bass Pig's Lair - 15,000 Watts of Driving Stereo!
http://www.mwcomms.com
http://www.adventuresinanimemusic.com
Re: Intensity(Pro) vs CineForm by Charlie Steiner on Sep 8, 2007 at 7:27:51 pm
Cineform can be test-driven for a month for free. you should try before buying. also, you might try asking about this issue on the adobe and/or Cow PP forums...
