Re: HDV to DVD by Steve Connor on Oct 10, 2006 at 3:23:30 pm
Your solution 4 is the best one.
Don't bother with recapturing as there is no benefit - We've found the best way is to create a new uncompressed 8 bit HD timeline, drop the HDV sequence into this and render. The Mpeg2's from this method work much better than from an HDV timeline. It also means all your effects, text etc that you applied in the HDV timeline will be re-rendered in uncompressed as well.
As far as playback on DVD players go - it's the DVd player that handles the conversion, you don't have to worry about it, just make sure you select "widescreen letterbox' in the track settings when you are in DVD Studio Pro
Re: HDV to DVD by Jim_M_ on Oct 10, 2006 at 4:18:42 pm
Tom
As you say, there are alot of options. I guess each person will use the method they think works best. I've been exporting my HDV timelines as self-contained, current settings, compressing in compressor or bitvice, and setting the flags in DVD Studio Pro as 16x9 letterbox. I've been pleased with the results of this workflow, and I've got an HDV master for later use.
Re: HDV to DVD by Borjis on Oct 10, 2006 at 4:40:24 pm
You should be able to export to compressor with your hdv timeline and get excellent results without any nesting or other conversions. FCP does not use the rendered sections of your timeline when creating a new file like an Avid does.
What you should probably do is look into the settings you use for making mpeg2 files for dvd in compressor. A lot of those settings are not good for high quality looking video.
Look at settings that offer good, better, best and choose best always.
Re: HDV to DVD by Jerry Alto on Oct 10, 2006 at 4:46:07 pm
Tom- We use a variation of solution 2. After we go out print to tape HDV we redigitize in 8-bit Uncompressed using the Z-1's component out.
We have the Kona LH and I believe the Kona 2 has component inputs. Then drop the show into an 8-bit timeline and export thru Compressor with your favorite mpeg2 setting. We have found the results to be better than Betacam SP. There are some extra steps but it is way faster than the tedious render processes of HDV in FCP and the results are great. We get a much cleaner mpeg2 file from 8-bit Uncompressed than from DV. Plus we have an HDV master.
Hope this helps.
Jerry
G5 Dual 3GB Ram
FCP5 Studio
External 1 TB SATA Raid 0
Kona LH, Second system w AJA ioLA
Sony Z-1
Re: HDV to DVD by Michael Slowe on Oct 11, 2006 at 10:55:11 am
Tom, I have agonized with this question for months. There is no doubt in my mind that DVD's in SD look better if they come from HD than if they just came from DV. Personally I don't like Compressor as a video encoder although I use it to obtain my audio ac3 files. Innobits' BitVice seems the chosen software of many editors (and my choice) as it gives so many options (CBR, VBR, one or two passes etc) and most importantly it downscales from HD brilliantly. I convert my HDV to uncompressed HD through Convergent Design's HD-Connect box but I guess this is a bit late for you to get new kit at this stage! In direct comparison my SD DVD's through the route described look better than my old ones from DVCAM originals and edited natively (Media 100i, now Media 100 HD). Roll on the possibility of creating HD DVD's (Blu-Ray?)and the chance to play them other than from a computer!
Re: HDV to DVD by Steve Connor on Oct 11, 2006 at 11:22:45 am
I agree - it used to be depressing to shoot on Digi and have to output to VHS, now it's even more depressing to go from HD to SD DVD! If the manufacturers could get their act together we might get a solution.
Re: HDV to DVD by Michael Slowe on Oct 12, 2006 at 10:37:54 am
Steve, even more depressing, I believe that the winner is about to become apparent and it will be the inferior (Toshiba?) HD DVD, rather than the better quality (but more costly) Blu-Ray. Is this your understanding?
Re: HDV to DVD by Steve Connor on Oct 12, 2006 at 11:58:15 am
I think it's anyones bet at the moment - Blu Ray seems to be the analysts choice but HDDVD is getting a good lead. Strangely enough it could be the adult programmes that make the difference just like VHS, and they are favouring Blu Ray.
I just wish we had an answer now so i could distribute all this HD material I'm filming.
Re: HDV to DVD by Steven L. Gotz on Oct 12, 2006 at 3:48:48 pm
I have been distributing HDV footage to customers for 18 months using a DVD-ROM with WM9 files. I find it amusing to sit back and watch these discussions since I don't feel the pressure everyone else seems to feel. I admit that corporate customers are a lot easier to deal with. I just bought the players and connected them to the large flat panels in the training rooms.
One of these days they will realize that they don't have proper menu systems I suppose. Then they will come looking for a solution that by then, I hope, will be obvious.
In the meantime, I still have to put out the occasional SD DVD. But not too often.
Re: HDV to DVD by RJ on Oct 13, 2006 at 3:47:21 am
Steve...
I know this has probably been covered many times in other forums/threads, but could you talk about your workflow from camera to DVD-rom, including what player a clients needs to view your final discs?
Re: HDV to DVD by Steven L. Gotz on Oct 14, 2006 at 2:56:56 pm
I use Cineform Aspect HD. I capture with HDLink (or HDVSplit - a free utility) and I convert to Cineform AVI. I use two steps because my PC is underpowered. At least until the new one with the 6800 chip arrives in about 10 days.
I edit in Premiere Pro 2.0 and export to WM9 files using an 8Mbps data rate.
For half of my customers, I put the files on DVD-ROM. For the others, I install them on a hard drive in their network. In both cases, the videos are played on the AVeL Linkplayer2 out component jacks to an HDTV ranging from 50" to 65" in training rooms.
They get used to the naming system I use for training sessions, and they don't seem to miss having a proper DVD menu. But in corporate training situations, I can get away with that.
If I was doing weddings, I would be stuck charging a lot more to provide the player to all of the brides as part of the package. In some cases that would work. In some, no way. But since weddings are hard work, and I am allergic to hard work, it isn't a problem for me.
Re: HDV to DVD by RJ on Oct 15, 2006 at 3:17:35 am
Thanks Steve...
Do you know if any of the HD-DVD players can also play the format dvd-rom you are creating?
I understand what you are talking about regarding your "closed loop" client use of HD, and it's something we are talking about with a few clients as a near term solution.
I wondering if we could stay within our HDV/DVCPro HD -> Final Cut Pro workflow, and simply convert our final output to WM9 or VC-1, and then master to dvd-rom as well.
I have more reading to do before I start experimenting.
Re: HDV to DVD by Steven L. Gotz on Oct 15, 2006 at 7:55:29 pm
I believe that the new players are using a different codec, but to be honest, I have been too busy to do the research yet, because I am waiting for the rest of you to figure it all out. And I don't need to spend the money. I have a temporary solution that I bout almost 2 years ago and it still works. When I can buy a $250 player and a $500 or less writer, with media under $10, then I will start to pay more attention. It is yours, among others, turn to be on the bleeding edge. I served my time in the HDV wars at the beginning. It is time for me to watch others get bloodied up while I sit on the sidelines and wait for my wounds to heal before rejoining the fight.
Re: HDV to DVD by ken hodson on Oct 12, 2006 at 9:16:35 pm
" Steve, even more depressing, I believe that the winner is about to become apparent and it will be the inferior (Toshiba?) HD DVD, rather than the better quality (but more costly) Blu-Ray. "
I don't know why this depresses you or what leads you to believe HDDVD inferior. I have read VC-1 is actually putting out better looking video at this point. Cost is definately is HDDVD's side as well. With HDDVD we have a hope that low cost burners and low-cost blanks are comming soon. With Sony and its other big media partners, low cost burners and media aren't a priority.
Re: HDV to DVD by Uli Plank on Oct 12, 2006 at 10:10:03 pm
Come one, both of these are just carriers of data.
Blu-ray just has more capacity, but for typical feature length both will have plenty of space. And all three codecs (MPEG-2, VC-1 and H.264) are allowed for both data carriers. How good the movies will be on the final product depends on many factors, from the condition of the original over transfer into data to the encoder used (and encoders are still undergoing improvement).
But this stupid format war might condemn the whole concept to become obsolete. If high-res disks don't take off in the consumer market soon, they'll be replaced by large bandwidth streaming. We have already 2 mbps DSL into many private homes, and 6 mbps is on the horizon
Re: HDV to DVD by ken hodson on Oct 13, 2006 at 5:35:20 am
"And all three codecs (MPEG-2, VC-1 and H.264) are allowed for both data carriers."
True, but apparently HDDVD is using VC-1 while Blueray H.264, and from a review I read linked from the Inquirer, Bluray is currently having quality issues that make it sub VC-1's HDDVD offering at the moment. Go figure. I am sure encoding will improve, but the fact remains the same, as you point out Uli, both formats have ample room for the HD movie, so no need to be depressed that HDDVD has taken a small hold as Michael stated. As in my previous post I am hopefull that HDDVD becomes established for the hope of low cost burners and blank media, and less restrictive media rights management. If I am not going to experience a savings to me or freedom over my purchased media, I could care less which format wins. I don't know why any consumer would champion Blurray except its "bigger" number.
Re: HDV to DVD by Borjis on Oct 13, 2006 at 5:33:30 pm
[ken hodson]"apparently HDDVD is using VC-1 while Blueray H.264"
Blu-Ray has been using mpeg2 since the beginning. nobody is using H.264 yet except for some japanese titles in japan.
Blu-Ray just started using VC-1 (warner bros) and interestingly enough all they did was convert the HD-DVD VC-1 Streams so they were compatible with Blu-Ray authoring.
The real issue with blu-ray and mpeg2 is that for whatever reason, they either were supplied with awful master tapes (5th element) and or the mpeg2 encoding was done by equipment or personal doing a botch job.
I've made HD 720P video with mpeg2 at 14.1 mbps and it looks awesome compared to most of the blu-ray titles out there. so something is definitely messed up.
Re: HDV to DVD by ken hodson on Oct 13, 2006 at 6:12:10 pm
Ya that probably explains it. And like I said, I'm sure in time all of the encoding issues will be worked out. But you would think they would make the initial release's perfect.
Re: HDV to DVD by Uli Plank on Oct 13, 2006 at 9:16:04 pm
Yeah, it really makes you wonder. Sony in particular, who own so many rights to movies, should be very interested in making the initial releases perfect, and then they are using scratched and dusty originals... I don't get it.
I can confirm that I get excellent H.264 from HVX200 originals with the encoder from Main Concept. You can only tell that it didn't originate on film from the typical defects missing ;-)
Regards,
Uli
Author of "DVDs gestalten und produzieren", a book on professional DVD-authoring in German.
Re: HDV to DVD by Michael Slowe on Oct 13, 2006 at 10:28:33 am
Ken, sorry, I am only going on hearsay, I have no personal knowledge of the merits of these systems. It does seem sensible though to go for the best picture quality this time. Had that been the prioriy with tape years ago Betamax would have won against VHS and we all would have been happier.
Re: HDV to DVD by Rennie on Oct 22, 2006 at 10:33:20 am
I can't help but think Sony's problem is it's so big it can't make a move with out cutting off it's arm in some other part of it's own conglomarate. The BR burners and players should have been out over a year ago but sony has to worry about thier holdings in the movie and music industry with all the pirates in the consumer arena. Unfortunatly we (small) content producers have to pay a price because of all this. I recently picked up a new sony RDR-GX-315 dvd recorder that produces invisible files. I bought it for quick "1 up" out put to dvd but if I want a second or 3rd copy I can't copy the files and burn them in the computer. I have to use DVD+RW media to get around this. I'm not sure if this is due to the copy protection built into the equipment or what but it seems Sony looks out for it's own interests first and in protecting the big content producers (ie: Sony Pictures) we small content producers don't always get the most ideal design concepts in this equipment to suit our needs.
While manufacturers target market cameras etc. to our group of small independant producers, we are bound by the big players' needs as we use their distribution media. I don't like having my content copied by my clients any more than sony does but who's making encryption for us. Macro vision certainly was out of my reach when tape distribution was the norm and one needs a costly authoring set up and produce in quantity to take advantage of copy protection on dvd.
Between Blue Ray and HD-DVD I'm picking the one that allows me to work with it the best and is free of ideosyncrices due to copywrite protection or region coding etc. (don't you just hate it when you switch from ntsc to pal to burn a disc and the warning pops up and tells you "you can only switch back and forth 5 times after which your burner will lock to the final format"! .....who's idea was that anyway? Although the HD-DVD manufacturers may not own content, their biggest customers do, so they do need to compete with sony on the copy protection thing. As manufacturers and not content owners I don't think the HD-DVD camp share the same degree of paranoia as sony. Probably the biggest key element to the studios though is the cost/time per disc factor.
