What is the color space of Sony Z1U

Can anyone tell me what the color space of the sony z1u camera?

709 colorspace.



TimK,

Kolb Productions,
Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net

All HD cameras use rec.709 color space.

I think you're asking the wrong questions though. What you want to know is:

resolution
interlaced or progressive (or both)
compression
chroma sampling

All affordable HD cameras have a different "balance" of those above, but in the end, there's not too much in overall quality between them. You make the choice based upon features and NLE support.

Graeme

- http://www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP

Ah, I'd forgotten about them....

But what I'm getting at is that practically everyone keeps saying "colour space" when they really mean "chroma sampling". Frustrates me no end. If people don't use the right names for things, how are we to know what they're talking about?? OK, stepping down from soap box....

Graeme

- http://www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP

I believe some of the very expensive HD cameras can output a 4:4:4 colorspace (chroma sample) like the Panavision Genesis (Full bandwidth, dual link 4:4:4 HDSDI outputs). I'm not sure what the least expensive HD camera is that allows 4:4:4 HDSDI outputs. Maybe its a Sony CineAlta?

I love Runway Fashion Shows ;-}

[Quote]To keep us straight, the 10bit RGB output is the colour space, and the 4:4:4 is the chroma sampling.[/Quote]

Sorry about that I definitely want to refer to the colorspace and chroma sampling correctly.

May I ask you a question? If you take HDV in through firewire to one of those external converter boxes like Convergent Designs, then you connect the HD SDI output of that converter box to a PC input card like an AJA Xena HD card (it accepts HD SDI and is compatible with my Adobe Priemere Pro 2.0) what kind of avi (intermediate ?) file will I be capturing to disk? I'm sure it's kind of a dumb question but I'm getting ready to make the jump into HD and sort of want to make sure I can get the best possible quality out of the HD camera.

I love Runway Fashion Shows ;-}

According to the manufacturer of the converter box they claim that they're converting the HDV firewire input into:

I-Frame CODEC Advantages

[VideoFame] "I-Frame CODEC Advantages

[VideoFame] "Thanks for that description. I think what your saying in laymans terms is that unless I get a converter box or a capture card like AJA Xena or Kona HD I'll end up bringing the video in at 4:2:0 chroma sampling. But it I use the converter box or a capture card I'll bring the video in at 4:2:2 croma sampling. I take it that this means I get frame accurate edits which means I'll potentially avoid re-compression during the rewrites of long GOPs.

So I guess it comes down to what is the best intermediate codec for me to use for bringing in the HDV assuming I'm stay with PPro2. I don't mind buying a capture card or converter box"


The chroma sampling doesn't have much to do with how frame-accurate the edits are...HDV native can be edited accurately.

I'm on PCs and I use Aspect HD for HDV editing...no card or box required. Also, Aspect 4 is the only method of handling any special camera modes in HDV...CineFrame modes in the Sonys, JVCs 24p, Canons 24f mode...FCP doesn't support the special camera modes for any of these with the possible exception of the Sonys (I haven't looked in a while), and PPro2 has no capability of supporting the JVC or the Canon without Aspect 4, which covers all modes on all known HDV cameras as far as I know. This is unique out of any software on any platform as of right now as far as I know...

With your system, I would think that Aspect HD would make your HD footage from your HDV camcorder just fly. Aspect can go back to HDV with one export pass back to MPEGTS. I have never gone back to HDV yet, we usually output to SD or WMV, or we would eventually end up on HDcam or DVC ProHD...

I have a Prospect HD system, which is an HDSDI system and the HDV Connect does add some flexibility there...

As for editing natively...since ou have PPro, you could try this mode and see how it performs on your machine and keep the Apect HD as an option if you want for now... I've found that (on the PC..)Canopus Edius probably handles HDV native the best in software in my experience,(I have not tried Liquid Edition...) and Vegas also does pretty well with it, though the most interesting HDV workflows in Vegas are the HDV>extremely high quality SD mode and the Connect HD (also from CineForm) intermediate mode.

...there really is nothing wrong with editing in native mode, I have personally found that the footage does seem to hold up better through AE passes, etc when it exists in a little sturdier I-frame codec.

I suppose that's subjective experience...but that's what we trade in here...




TimK,

Kolb Productions,
Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net

[VideoFame] "Thanks for that description. I think what your saying in laymans terms is that unless I get a converter box or a capture card like AJA Xena or Kona HD I'll end up bringing the video in at 4:2:0 chroma sampling. But it I use the converter box or a capture card I'll bring the video in at 4:2:2 croma sampling. I take it that this means I get frame accurate edits which means I'll potentially avoid re-compression during the rewrites of long GOPs."

Well, HDV is 4:2:0 no matter what! The box doesn't magically make it look like real 4:2:2 - it just interpolates the chroma from 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 which any software HDV codec can do (and probably does).

Native HDV solutions give frame accurate edits though. To say otherwise is pure FUD.

What are you mastering out to though? It you're going back to HDV, there's zero benefit. If you're going out to HDCAM SR, there could be a workflow, but I know in FCP there are simpler, less expensive workflows that give equal results.

Graeme



- http://www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP

Scrubbing native HDV is as good as scrubbing anything else in FCP on a dual G5.

Graeme

- http://www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP

The basic thing is, if you've got a good native editing support in your NLE, you don't need this. If you're low end, then you're going back to HDV tape, and at that point there's guaranteed damage to your video quality, which is unavoidable. Editing uncompressed or using an intermediate won't help you here.

Editing uncompressed doesn't help you at all unless you're on such a low power machine that native editing is a pain. If you're on such a low power machine, just rendering HD will be painful.

Finally bumping your timeline to uncompressed is of benefit as it then avoids a render back to the very lossly MPEG2 HDV codec, and then you're free to output, at best quality to whichever HD mastering format you want - D5, HDCAM SR etc. At that point an intermediate codec that is compressed is not much good as you've certainly go enough fast hard disc space if you have access to one of those high end mastering decks.

Graeme

- http://www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP

Why would you go from HDV via DV to DVD though? That's silly. You'd just go straight from HDV to MPEG2 for DVD avoiding any intermediary. If you do need an intermediary, you should be using a 4:2:2 one, preferably uncompressed.

Graeme

- http://www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP

Well in a way the AspectHD codec does add information. It uses a form of intelligent upsampling where it creates colour info based on surrounding chroma info. I would recommend checking out their site. They have examples of where simply converting HDV to cineform codec increases the quality of the image. Real 4:2:2 is always prefered but the AspectHD codec comes very close.

Going via the 4:1:1 of DV will cause visible problems on strong colour transitions.

Graeme

- http://www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP

Do you have a link on this - I'd be keen to see what they're doing.

Graeme

- http://www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP

http://www.cineform.com/technology/HDVQualityAnalysis051011/HDVQualityAnaly...

This link for just the chroma conversion stuff.

OK, but what?
Do you care to elaborate or should we start a new thread?
Maybe one that doesn't require two monitors ;>)

What about capturing directly to a computer or deck using the component out? My understanding is that the comp-out is pre-compression, so you should get a much better image. Of course, you need to get the hardware to support it, but the camera should provide the data, yes?