Will Broadcaster accept HDV?
by Angel Video
on
Nov 2, 2005 at 6:54:31 pm
I've been reading that broadcasters are testing the waters with HDV. I was wondering what peoples thoughts were here? Will HDV be an acceptable format for broadcast environments?
Re: Will Broadcaster accept HDV? by Tim Kolb on Nov 2, 2005 at 10:48:25 pm
Well...it depends on what you call "broadcasting" I supoose.
There are some rather large market TV stations already moving into HDV for news using the "VJ" (Video Journalist) model.
I don't know if many stations will be in the mood to ever accept HDV tapes for spots...though I know we are already seeing some asking for MPEG pre-spec'd for their server and delivered on a disc. I suppose at that point as long as what you have looks good...what you shot it on may come down to "don't ask...don't tell."
I know several guys who delivered DigiBeta masters to networks that asked for it, but all the footage was shot on Beta SP.
I wouldn't look for any huge announcement from broadcasters heralding their decision to embrace HDV. They all know that the image quality will only degrade through the delivery of the programming so the goal is to keep the content in as pristine a state as possible during production.
I guess that leaves the answer as "it depends..." I think that the credibility of the outside videographer or production company, with the station or network will make some difference in what risks they're willing to accept...
TimK,
Kolb Syverson Communications,
Creative Cow Host,
2004-2005 NAB Post Production Conference
Premiere Pro Technical Chair,
Author, "The Easy Guide to Premiere Pro" www.focalpress.com
"Premiere Pro Fast Track DVD Series" www.classondemand.net
Re: Will Broadcaster accept HDV? by stephenlnoe on Nov 3, 2005 at 1:41:28 am
The answer here in Chicago is no. I've sat down with program directors and engineers, it's a ways off. I've been told, "come back and ask in 18 months". Delivery is still BetaSP and DVCam.
Re: Will Broadcaster accept HDV? -> best quality for SD delivery????????? by Jerry Alto on Nov 3, 2005 at 5:23:29 am
Wes- We just did a corporate project we shot on HDV (Z-1). I edited HDV native in FCP5 then output to an HDV master. Then took the HDV Master component out to analog component in on the Digibeta for a Digibeta Master and am very pleased with the results. Some things we learned:
1. You need to do a hard record on the Digibeta (not an assemble edit). This means you need to put
the black, bars and tone and slate on the timeline.
2. We found that the black level on the Digibeta Master was 0 so the dub house was given instructions to add 7.5 setup for the vhs dubs coming from the Digibeta (menu item #713 on the Digibeta setup).
Many comments on how much better the video looked than DV or Betacam SP. Plus the added benefit of now
having an HD master.
Re: Will Broadcaster accept HDV? -> best quality for SD delivery????????? by Tim Kolb on Nov 3, 2005 at 1:36:21 pm
[Jerry Alto]"Many comments on how much better the video looked than DV or Betacam SP. Plus the added benefit of now
having an HD master."
This was recently my experience as well as we did a project with the Z1, edited CineForm intermediate and we actually exported directly to SD MPEG2 DVD (16:9 Letterbox) and I could absolutely see a benefit over DV-25 originated material. It was very clean.
While I don't know if TV stations will EVER adopt HDV delivery on any widespread basis...I suspect there will be some amount of production acquiring and editing in HDV or its workflow variants and delivering on some other format over the near term at least.
TimK,
Kolb Syverson Communications,
Creative Cow Host,
2004-2005 NAB Post Production Conference
Premiere Pro Technical Chair,
Author, "The Easy Guide to Premiere Pro" www.focalpress.com
"Premiere Pro Fast Track DVD Series" www.classondemand.net
Re: Will Broadcaster accept HDV? -> best quality for SD delivery????????? by Wes Greene on Nov 4, 2005 at 2:59:24 am
That sounds great Jerry.
I have a project combining
- HDV footage from FX1 50i (which needs to edited),
- some digibeta of old archival footage (not orginated on digibeta and needs no editing just some triming)
- graphics
I have been asked to output final master to digibeta. What would be the best workflow in your opinion?
I using FCP on a small system - would need to use a friend's suite for anything digibeta.
I'm thinking
- cut the HDV in HDV
- use compressor to take the HDV to 8 bit uncompressed
- compile everything in a 8-bit timeline at friend's suite
- then output to digibeta
You're thoughts/experience??
I'd particualrly be interested to hear anyone's experience comparing HDV outputted to digibeta vs DVCAM.
Re: Will Broadcaster accept HDV? -> best quality for SD delivery????????? by Jerry Alto on Nov 4, 2005 at 5:16:20 pm
Wes- I just did one small test on converting HDV to 8-bit uncompressed and it looked good also but as I remember it took some major render time. I would do a test of a short HDV to 8-bit timeline conversion first. I see where compressor has some very interesting conversion capabilities (settings menu; advanced format conversions) but I have not tried them. Be sure to test some motion footage and see how it looks and how long it takes. Also test component in on the digibeta from your HDV deck of the same timline and compare them side by side.
Because you are delivering on Digibeta and have standard definition content to mix on the timeline I would edit the HDV material on its own timeline without a lot of graphics and output an HDV quicktime movie. I did this and the process was very fast and the file size very small (25 min. show was 4.32 GB). I would then do the 8-bit quicktime conversion and final edit with graphics on an 8-bit timeline at your friends suite and output to Digibeta.
You also have to deal with the 16x9/4x3 issue but thats a whole different ball game. Our project required 4x3 so we shot widescreen with the edgecrop markers on (Z-1) and was able to do the edgecrop downcovert coming out of the HDV deck to the Digibeta. At least with PAL you won't have to deal with the stupid 7.5 black level issue that we have here in the USofA.
Re: Will Broadcaster accept HDV? by esp on Nov 3, 2005 at 5:17:51 am
When I was at IBC this year I attended an AVID demonstration of their intermediate codec DNXHD (or something like that). They said that SKY TV would accept HDV as source material only if it was edited and proccessed as uncompressed HDTV or another less compressed format like HDCAM or their own DNXHD format which in my opinion was an excellent choice as a digital intermediate codec.
I would also like to comment that the quality of HDV compared to HDCAM and DVCPROHD that was demonstrated in that particular session (seen in an 60inch HD plasma display from about 2m/6ft)was very good and was barely distinguishable from the other codecs except from the time when there was a lot of movement in both the camera and the filmed subject. At that occasion the picture was obviously softer.
Re: Will Broadcaster accept HDV? by Tim Kolb on Nov 3, 2005 at 1:40:40 pm
[esp]"When I was at IBC this year I attended an AVID demonstration of their intermediate codec DNXHD (or something like that). They said that SKY TV would accept HDV as source material only if it was edited and proccessed as uncompressed HDTV or another less compressed format like HDCAM or their own DNXHD format which in my opinion was an excellent choice as a digital intermediate codec."
I suspect that DNxHD shows merit over a native MPEG workflow. From what I've seen, I think that the CineFormHD and Canopus HQ codecs outperform it to some extent. I'm not sure what differences one would see in just a few generations though...
TimK,
Kolb Syverson Communications,
Creative Cow Host,
2004-2005 NAB Post Production Conference
Premiere Pro Technical Chair,
Author, "The Easy Guide to Premiere Pro" www.focalpress.com
"Premiere Pro Fast Track DVD Series" www.classondemand.net
Re: Will Broadcaster accept HDV? by Michael G on Nov 8, 2005 at 12:28:16 am
The answer is going to vary with broadcasters, but a recent promo I sent to NHK Japan indicates that even technically fussy broadcasters like NHK will broadcast HDV originated material.
Here was the workflow -
Shoot Sony Z1 PAL 50i
Capture from camera via firewire as SD DV codec
Edit and then transfer finished edit project from offline to me
Final Cut Pro 5 recapture as HDV native via firewire.
Convert to 10 bit 4.2.2 HD timeline (including correcting 1440 to 1920)
Grade and title
Render 10bit 4.2.2 HD Quicktime
transfer Quicktime file at Dub house to HDCAM PAL
Sent to NHK and the technical feedback was astonishment at how good it compared to HDCam original and was Ok for broadcast by NHK
