which camera? WAS "disappointed in Sony..."
by tc
on
Aug 5, 2005 at 6:44:08 pm
ok,
regarding my earlier post, we are now investigating buying one of 3 cameras. We are primarily Visual Effects and design for broadcast commercials - we need to shoot greenscreen; smoke over black; etc. stuff that we will need to key & composite later. Compression is a dirty word in my land - so which one is good for us? Sony Z1U; JVC GY HD100u; or the Panasonic AG - HVX200?
Re: which camera? WAS "disappointed in Sony..." by David Roth Weiss on Aug 5, 2005 at 7:51:54 pm
Tim,
Supposdly, if you don't record to tape in-camera, the output of the Z1 bypasses the compression curcuitry and outputs an uncompressed signal. Some VFX pros have reported somehow capturing that and using it for very high quality VFX work of the type you mentioned.
Re: which camera? WAS "disappointed in Sony..." by kenh on Aug 5, 2005 at 9:54:10 pm
The JVC definitely has the ability to put out a 720 60p uncompressed signal as well, but it is 720p as opposed to the 1080i signal from the Sony. Don't know what the Panasonic does in regard to a straight uncompressed signal out, but it handles the widest range of formats up to 1020 30p.
Re: which camera? WAS "disappointed in Sony..." by Barry Green on Aug 6, 2005 at 5:47:48 am
No. The hard-disk option for the JVC is a FireStore FS-4. It's been tweaked a little to allow for better communication between the camera and the FS-4, basically allowing its status info to appear on the camera's viewfinder.
But other than that, it's basically an FS-4, which is recording the 1394 data stream. Which means that the only thing the hard disk unit can record is HDV-compressed video, and at the very most, you can capture 720/30p. The hard disk cannot capture 60p, nor can it capture uncompressed. It cannot capture anything that the tape couldn't.
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Get the most from your DVX camera. The DVX Book and DVX DVD are now available at http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/dvxbook/ and at Amazon (http://tinyurl.com/54u4a)
Re: which camera? WAS "disappointed in Sony..." by Tim Kolb on Aug 6, 2005 at 7:07:13 am
[james bannfield]"DRW,
Does that mean that when hdd disk become available for hdv you can output uncompressed to it just by bypassing the tape?
James B."
Basically,as long as you can take analog component HD into some sort of harddisk, yes. I suspect that we'll start to see some options based on this idea within the next 9 months or so...
TimK,
Kolb Syverson Communications,
Creative Cow Host,
2004-2005 NAB Post Production Conference
Premiere Pro Technical Chair,
Author, "The Easy Guide to Premiere Pro" www.focalpress.com
"Premiere Pro Fast Track DVD Series" www.classondemand.net
Re: which camera? WAS "disappointed in Sony..." by Barry Green on Aug 5, 2005 at 8:27:38 pm
The HVX200's recording format is going to have a huge advantage when it comes to keying -- it uses 4:2:2 color sampling, offering approximately twice as much color resolution as the others.
It remains to be seen what final images look like; however, on paper, for compositing work, the HVX looks like it has several clear advantages. First, it shoots in 1080p or 720p; progressive frames can be much cleaner to key than interlaced. Second, as compared to the HD100, the HVX offers 50% more luma resolution and 3x as much chroma resolution.
Other factors will come into play though -- quality of lens, etc. Chromatic aberrations can play havoc with keying by adding a purple or green fringe around areas of high contrast.
All these cameras will output an uncompressed analog signal; if you're set up to capture uncompressed analog video you can bypass the HDV or DVCPRO-HD compression.
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Get the most from your DVX camera. The DVX Book and DVX DVD are now available at http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/dvxbook/ and at Amazon (http://tinyurl.com/54u4a)
Re: which camera? WAS "disappointed in Sony..." by matt norton on Aug 6, 2005 at 3:34:32 am
The first generation of hard disk recorders can't do uncompress HD. They would have to have a raid unless they go with Panasonic's compression rate. but I am sure we will see it in the future. for now you can build your own but it won't be very portable.
JVC has analog 720 60p 4:2:2 out as I recall. In theory you could capture to an HD card on a monster computer.
Re: which camera? WAS "disappointed in Sony..." by Tom Bates on Aug 6, 2005 at 11:49:41 am
I think that Barry has it right. I have not been very interested in the Panasonic product because of the P2 card recording length limitations and expense. But here it is probably perfect. Length of recording time is not much of an issue in this application, and the greater range of resolution in recording is a decided advantage. The Panny has a fixed lens, but it is probably a pretty good one for the price. I have not seen HVX200 footage, so I am working on theoretical assumptions here, not observed quality. But Panasonic has much experience at this resolution, and I am sure they will put out a good product.
Re: which camera? WAS "disappointed in Sony..." by macka on Aug 6, 2005 at 9:14:27 am
I work in broadcast and the sony has definitely fallen off our to buy list after testing in the field - we are now investigating jvc's offering. If I was doing HD VFX work on a budget right now I'd buy the JVC as it's CCD is (on paper) pixel for pixel without interpolation and its head outputs directly to the component out. I'd then put the analogue components via a Decklink HD capture card into a suitable computer to maintain full colour space without compression.
Just buy a head! by RobRoy on Aug 6, 2005 at 10:39:52 pm
Sony have a 3 chip head only HDV camera for not much more than the Z1, add your own glass and feed component into a BMD card and a monster PC. For what you're doing (I'm assuming this is all in a studio) why pay for tape transports or P2 cards to record onto when you can capture direct to the computer. Just bear in mind the disk arrays will probably cost as much as the camera!
