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compressing apple prores to sd-dvd

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kyutae kimcompressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Nov 1, 2011 at 10:47:53 pm

Hey i have a problem that seems to be everywhere on the internet.....but not been solved or no direct answer.

-i have a video i shot in 1920x1080/30p
-i have conformed everything to apple pro res HQ
-the full sequence is 55mins long (56gb)

my question is, what is the best way to put that 55min sequence onto a sd dvd?

-i have tried compressing it with compressor as a mpeg2 and burned it with dvd studio pro, but the quality is real bad.

i need to have the cleanest quality possible for my client

cheers,


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eric pautschRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Nov 1, 2011 at 10:54:43 pm

Please do a search. This question is asked almost daily. Were working on some stickies for this as well



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kyutae kimRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Nov 1, 2011 at 11:16:52 pm

send me a link buddy.....cant find anything that actually works well...dont need you to tell me to search it...doesn't help with my problem


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eric pautschRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Nov 2, 2011 at 12:07:14 am

This forum is intended to answer specific issues in your workflow, not to spell out an entire workflow. What is your current workflow and how is is not sufficient?

If you need to have the absolute best results, you will need to experiment and try some new tools. I use AVISynth and Virtual Dub for down conversion work. You can also use Compressor or MPEG Stream Clip to do your down conversion.

http://forums.creativecow.net/search.php?q=hd+to+sd+dvd+&content=F&f%5B%5D=...


You basically need to a 720x480 16x9 anamorphic, uncompressed file first. From there you can encode.

Here's a good site to check out as well

http://www.precomposed.com/blog/category/articles/



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Gary MilliganRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Nov 2, 2011 at 2:13:32 am

I'm quite happy with BitVice.

http://www.innobits.com/index.php

HTH

This is me - this is what I do - http://web.mac.com/garymmw


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eric pautschRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Nov 2, 2011 at 3:14:56 am

Yeah....Bitvice has some great tools as well



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Anthony DiasRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Nov 4, 2011 at 3:50:17 am

I had a lot of issues with the quality of HD material getting converted to MPEG2 for SD DVD and I tried BitVice, Adobe Encoder and Sorenson Squeeze with disappointing results every time.

Eventually, after much trial and error, I've found a "golden path" that works for me.

Here's my workflow... it sucks because it takes FOREVER, and you need a lot of hard drive space but it works great, produces stellar results and is done completely within FCP* and Compressor.

*I'm assuming you have the latest version of Final Cut Studio.



1) Render your whole timeline. (the only colors above your timeline should be gray or blue-gray)

2) Export the whole sequence as an HD ProRes file from Final Cut Pro
- File> Export> QuickTime Movie...
- Leave the settings to "Current settings"
- Make yourself a sandwich

3) Open your exported HD ProRes QuickTime file in Compressor.

4) Download these settings
- It's much easier to just give you the settings than to try to explain them.

5) Apply the setting called ProRes SD-CUBRICON and submit it.
- If you have audio, it should pass through
- Make yourself another sandwich and maybe go for a walk

6) Once the batch finished, take the new exported ProRes SD file and open it in a new batch in Compressor.

7) Place the SD DVD-CUBRICON setting in the new ProRes SD file.

8) If you want or need Audio, use the Apple Dolby Digital Pofessional 2.0 setting and set Dialogue Normalization to your preferred level. (I use -31 dB)
- Do NOT use PCM (aka .wav or .aiff)

9) VERY IMPORTANT: BEFORE YOU SUBMIT THE SD DVD SETTING (at least in my experience)
- make sure that you are submitting to your local cluster and NOT "this computer".
- You can go to page 15 of this manual if you don't know how to set up a quick cluster.
- Why? Well, sometimes, I've gotten weird pulsating artifacts in parts of my video when I don't do this.
- This usually happens in areas of high detail (like tree leaves) from XDCAM EX source material.

10) Compare the quality to your original exports
- I almost went nuts trying to get "Hollywood" quality out of DVD Studio Pro.
- I also almost bought CinemaCraft MP, but they don't have a demo version!

---

Good Luck!

ps. You might want to try this workflow on a one minute section of your video before you do the whole 50+ minutes.

In particular, look for a section of video that is currently problematic and see if my method fixes it.


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kyutae kimRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Nov 7, 2011 at 2:38:19 pm

hey thanks A LOT for the tip.....1 problem....when i open up the compressor settings that i downloaded....it says "error unable to open"....could you just send me the exact compressor settings?

cheers,


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Anthony DiasRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Nov 7, 2011 at 7:42:37 pm

Quit compressor and then put the setting files into the following folder:


user/Library/Application Support/Compressor/

Then re-launch Compressor and the settings should appear in the "Custom" folder in the Settings window.

Anyway, if that doesn't work, here's a Copy/Paste of the settings.


Name: ProRes SD-CUBRICON
Description: No description
File Extension: mov
Estimated file size: unknown
Audio: multi-track passthrough
Video Encoder
Format: QT
Width: 720
Height: 480
Pixel aspect ratio: NTSC CCIR 601/DV (16:9)
Crop: None
Padding: None
Frame rate: (100% of source)
Frame Controls: Automatically selected: Off
Codec Type: Apple ProRes 422
Multi-pass: Off, frame reorder: Off
Progressive
Pixel depth: 24
Spatial quality: 50
Min. Spatial quality: 0
Temporal quality: 0
Min. temporal quality: 0

---


Name: SD-DVD-CUBRICON
Description: Fits up to 90 minutes of video with Dolby Digital audio at 192 Kbps or 60 minutes with AIFF audio on a DVD-5
File Extension: m2v
Estimated file size: 2.64 GB/hour of source
Type: MPEG-2 video elementary stream
Usage:SD DVD
Video Encoder
Format: M2V
Width and Height: Automatic
Selected: 720 x 480
Pixel aspect ratio: NTSC CCIR 601/DV (16:9)
Crop: None
Padding: None
Frame rate: (100% of source)
Frame Controls: Off
Start timecode from source
Aspect ratio: 16:9
Field dominance: Progressive
Average data rate: 6 (Mbps)
2 Pass VBR enabled
Maximum data rate: 7.5 (Mbps)
High quality
Best motion estimation
Closed GOP Size: 1/2 second, Structure: IBBP
DVD Studio Pro meta-data enabled


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Nina HasinRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Feb 13, 2012 at 11:26:13 pm

Hi,

I came across your advice on this forum for pre-compressing in Compressor before bringing the files into DVD Studio to make a SD DVD of the 19 min. video. Your settings were an improvement on my first attempt, which was just using the preset MPEG-2 settings. That dvd came out OK, but not great and it did have a lot of moire patterns in the dvd. Your Cubricon settings made the the moire patterns in the video go away and the video did look a lot better, but a problem cropped up on the few shots that I used FCP 7's Smooth Cam filter on. The Cubricon settings couldn't handle those sections and those sections aren't usable. Do you know how to adjust that so those few clips will play smoothly?

Here's how I started the process on my macbook pro:
Log & Transfer converts the AVCHD footage to ProRes 422. The original video is 1080i 29.97fps, 1920x1080. The FCP timeline settings are HDTV1080i (16:9) aspect ratio: Square, 29.97, Field Dominance: Upper (odd), Compressor: ProRes 422

Thanks,
Nina

ninah


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Anthony DiasRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Feb 14, 2012 at 12:47:59 am

Hi Nina,

Is this problem happening only in the MPEG 2 version or also in the SD ProRes version?

If it's happening in the SD ProRes version try the following:

1) make sure your main FCP timeline is completely rendered. Including the "full" category. Follow these directions: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1289 then choose that option (Render All). Then export the new HD file, convert to SD, then convert to MPEG 2.

2) Try adding compression markers in the sections that don't look so great. how to add compression markers

good luck,
-Tony


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Nina HasinRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Feb 14, 2012 at 1:30:03 am

Thanks, Tony. It is in the ProRes SD version, too, so I'll try your suggestions and report back. It's driving me crazy.

Nina

ninah


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Nina HasinRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Feb 15, 2012 at 12:16:59 am

Hi Tony,

I tried your suggestions, but even with lots of compression markers it didn't help those few sections where the clips were smooth cammed. I wonder if I put each of those smooth cam-altered clips on a separate timeline and export, then re-import and place them in the original TL, then go through the whole process again, if that would help?

Nina

ninah


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Anthony DiasRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Feb 15, 2012 at 4:55:32 am

Nina,

your idea is as good as anything I can think of.

I hope it works for you... My particular problem was driving me crazy for way too long!

-Tony


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Alex RodiaRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Sep 19, 2012 at 5:37:26 pm

Hey Tony,
Im having the same problem.
I used your compressor settings and the output file looks fantastic, all the moire is gone,
but as soon as the file gets anywhere near DVD studio pro it just gets destroyed with moire all over the place. Is there some setting in dvd studio i'm missing to get this problem to stop happening. Ive trying with so many different compression settings that create good video files but once dvd studio get a hold of them it must be compressing them again. Super frustrating. Any suggestion are greatly appricated


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Anthony DiasRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Sep 20, 2012 at 1:14:57 am

Alex, DVD studio pro should not be doing any of the compression, if it is, then you are asking for trouble ;)

You should be using Compressor to do the entire thing:
HD source -> HD ProRes -> SD ProRes -> MPEG-2... drag and drop to DVD Studio Pro.

Basically, the only thing DVDSP is handling is the menus and the actual build and burn of the DVD. but all the encoding is in Compressor.

Is this in fact the process you are using?


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Alex RodiaRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Sep 20, 2012 at 1:45:09 am

See the thing is that I've given DvdStudio a number of different files all encoded differently (including your settings from compressor) all of which seem to have fixed the morie issue ive been having. Yet when I burn a dvd the morie comes back. Thats why I was led to believe that dvd studio has to be doing some sort of compressing. I thought I fixed the issue by unchecking "show single field" which eliminated the morie when I simulate the DVD but again once the dvd is burnt the morie returns. DO you think it might be due to the fact the the dvd is forcing everything to be interlaced or should I keep trying different encoded files to see if something finally works. (Ive tried about 7 different formats from compressor now) all of which dont display morie until I pop the freshly burnt dvd into my dvd player. I just dont know what to try anymore.


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Anthony DiasRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Sep 20, 2012 at 5:15:50 am

classic question... are you viewing the final DVD on your computer or on a TV?


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Alex RodiaRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Sep 21, 2012 at 1:04:25 pm

It looks fine when I try it in a computer, but looks crappy when tried to play on a TV


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Anthony DiasRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Sep 21, 2012 at 3:33:37 pm

Is it an HDTV or a regular old tube style television?

If HDTV, it might be using a scaling algorithm that isn't very good and if it's a tube TV you might have issues with going from progressive material to interlaced... but it would be hard to troubleshoot this without actually seeing the problem at which point more research might be in order... or finding a TV engineer, lol


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Alex RodiaRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Sep 21, 2012 at 3:53:47 pm

Its an HDTV... you think that is causing the problem?


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Anthony DiasRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Sep 21, 2012 at 6:03:04 pm

well, no matter what, a DVD is never going to look as good as the original HD footage on an HDTV.

But most HDTVs... and some newer DVD players have features that scale the video to fill the screen. This may introduce new artifacts into your video like the moire you described.

the only way to know for sure is to view the dvd on a regular old-school TV. If it looks fine there, then you know there's a problem with the re-upsizing to HD from SD.

Anyway, is it really terrible? Does it bother the "regular" viewers? or does it only bother you? :)

If it's for a client, could you just send them an h.264 file?


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Alexander KallasRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Sep 24, 2012 at 4:18:39 am

Anthony, another question if I may.

On your settings:-
Name: SD-DVD-CUBRICON
Closed GOP Size: 1/2 second, Structure: IBBP
DVD Studio Pro meta-data enabled

why have you changed the GOP structure?

Cheers
Alexander


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Anthony DiasRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Sep 24, 2012 at 6:18:51 am

As far as I know (which is mostly self-researched through google :) 15 frame GOP with IBBP structure is pretty standard for NTSC SD DVDs.

Anyway, I don't remember changing the GOP. Unless I changed it from open to closed which was so I could do multi-angle stuff. But looking at the presets supplied by Apple in Compressor, they look the same to me.

Could you be more specific as to what I actually changed?

Below is the info from the Compressor manual regarding GOP that I found online:

"There are limitations to using open GOPs for DVD-Video discs that are created using a DVD authoring application such as DVD Studio Pro. One limitation is that only closed GOPs are permitted within MPEG-2 streams that will be used for mixed-angle or multi-angle DVDs." -taken from Apple's Compressor Manual


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Alexander KallasRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Sep 24, 2012 at 12:20:10 pm

[Anthony Dias] "As far as I know (which is mostly self-researched through google :) 15 frame GOP with IBBP structure is pretty standard for NTSC SD DVDs.
Anyway, I don't remember changing the GOP. Unless I changed it from open to closed which was so I could do multi-angle stuff. But looking at the presets supplied by Apple in Compressor, they look the same to me. Could you be more specific as to what I actually changed?
"


Hi Anthony,
Here are several examples of GOP length used in common MPEG formats:
• MPEG-2 for DVD: Maximum GOP length is 18 frames for NTSC or 15 frames for PAL. These
GOP lengths can be doubled for progressive footage.
• 1080-line HDV: Uses a long-GOP structure that is 15 frames in length.
• 720-line HDV: Uses a six-frame GOP structure.
So the problem exists within going from progressive HD to SD to m2v for display on interlaced TV.

Cheers
Alexander


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Anthony DiasRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Sep 24, 2012 at 4:06:19 pm

I see what you mean. However, if you convert to ProRes, then all of the frames are I frames, so perhaps that is why the quality problem gets "fixed".

Anyway, in an ideal world, Compressor should be able to do an HD to SD MPEG-2 conversion without the quality problems that myself and others have suffered. But it doesn't, hence my workaround.


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Alexander KallasRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Sep 23, 2012 at 11:44:32 am

[Anthony Dias] "Is it an HDTV or a regular old tube style television?

If HDTV, it might be using a scaling algorithm that isn't very good and if it's a tube TV you might have issues with going from progressive material to interlaced... but it would be hard to troubleshoot this without actually seeing the problem at which point more research might be in order... or finding a TV engineer, lol
"


As you know, all DVD is SD which is displayed as interlaced TV, there's your problem.
In the USA the transmission standards do not support 1080p so if you get a 720p HDTV and you just want to watch HDTV your set. a 720p HDTV will display 480i,480p,720p,1080i just fine only leaving you to have to downscale 1080p so it's fine for HDTV viewing. 1080p in the USA at present is only available on Blue-Ray players (including PS3) and some HD-DVD players (dieing out).

Cheers
Alexander


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Kev CurranRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Oct 3, 2012 at 12:45:04 pm

Hi
Ive been looking for some time for the best results on writing DVDs and when I found your advice and settings downloads I got really excited to see the results. I have followed the process to the letter but now im trying to import my audio and video track into DVD St Pro it tells me 'NTSC assets cannot be imported into PAL projects'. Please can you tell me how do i resolve this as usually I write PAL. Im guessing these are not UK settings? Please help


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Anthony DiasRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Oct 3, 2012 at 5:32:36 pm

Hi Kev,

I have not dealt with PAL material before other than in some minor training. My settings are NTSC because I'm in the USA.

However, Compressor should have PAL settings templates. Modify them to fit your needs. Remember to go from your HD source to HD ProRes, then to Standard Definition PAL, then to PAL MPEG2. Always keep it in PAL... makes sense right?

I hope this helps out a little. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.


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Kev CurranRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Oct 4, 2012 at 3:29:33 pm

Hi Anthony
Cheers for getting back to me, i followed your instructions to the letter - the PAL issue can be sorted in the settings but the process played out left me with quite a poor quality video in DVD Pro especially around text. There has to be a simple effective way of doing this.

The source media is exported as Quick Time (current settings) which gives me pro res high quality but once I compressed the video (twice following the instructions) the final output lets me down and is really disappointing quality. In the past I have always used DVD best Quality setting but even that is poor.

I really would love a definative solution to this, is there perhaps something i could have got wrong in following the process (SD DVD CUBRICON)any further thoughts or ideas would be very welcome.

Peace
k


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Anthony DiasRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Oct 4, 2012 at 3:42:36 pm

so wait... did you convert from HD ProRes to SD ProRes before doing the final MPEG conversion?

Also, did you have the right frame size? NTSC frame sizes are not the same as PAL.

Your Frame Size should be 720x586 as opposed to my settings.


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Kev CurranRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Oct 8, 2012 at 10:07:53 am

Hi Anthony
Please excuse me I am dyslexic and have trouble with memory (a bit like my mac when i have been driving it hard)!

I followed your instructions step by step. I noticed the frame sizes were different. On the first step it appeared to resize and looked wrong but on the second stage this was rectified. Perhaps that is why i got such poor results?

Is it possible to post directly to me the step by step proceedure with that frame size/pal settings. I now realise I can set to PAL (I just copied your settings and can go into them to edit to PAL).

Many thanks.
Kev


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Anthony DiasRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Oct 10, 2012 at 5:53:26 pm

If you can send me a link to a short clip of your video... or any HD PAL video for that matter, I can see if I can repeat the steps.

But it might me take a week or so.


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Kev CurranRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Oct 11, 2012 at 8:59:51 am

That would be awesome. Send me a mail so i can send you a clip kev@inspiredyouth.org

much appreciated


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Kev CurranRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Oct 3, 2012 at 2:08:05 pm

Hi
Ive been looking for some time for the best results on writing DVDs and when I found your advice and settings downloads I got really excited to see the results. I have followed the process to the letter but now im trying to import my audio and video track into DVD St Pro it tells me my project is PAL and these are


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Jason DarnellRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Aug 8, 2013 at 6:10:44 pm

Anthony, I used your settings for the HDV to DVD workflow, and the results are brilliant. Thanks for taking the time to prepare the DVDSP settings (easy as pie!) and sharing your workflow so clearly. Enormous time saver. Looks great on computer and BluRay. Brilliant!


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Tabitha HayesRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Sep 5, 2013 at 3:24:03 pm

OH HOW I WANT TO KISS YOU!

Thank you so much.

I have spent serious time online and trying to fix this a few months ago and finally gave it up. Tried again this time and came across your magic.

Again thank you for being my hero.


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Brian WengrofskyRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Mar 13, 2014 at 12:05:52 pm

This is the best ProRes to DVD workflow ever and a total life saver! Thank you!!

There was just a tiny bit of contrast build up in the final stage of making the DVD, so in Compressor I added a "gamma correction" filter and set it at .95, very pleased with results.



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Sam EberleRe: compressing apple prores to sd-dvd
by on Jun 19, 2014 at 1:29:12 am

Total life saver! This guide vastly improved my DVD's quality! Thanks so much!


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