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DVD duplication issues

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Nelson MayDVD duplication issues
by on Feb 18, 2010 at 10:13:09 pm

It may be in the duplication process, but I produced a set of DVDs for a client and they said they are getting errors on the duplicated DVDs. As far as I know, I am doing everything by the book. I burn the master then hand it over to the client. Some of the DVDs are being played on older machines, and that could cause some issues.

Is there anything I may be doing that is remotely wrong in my process on building and burning. I use compressor, import into DVDSP, build my menus and burn.

In FCP studio 3, I burned a proof DVD, but couldn't get it to "end jump" via any remote controls on my MAC or my w year old DVD player. I read somewhere DVDSP doesn't like older DVD players. Is DVDSP not universal for DVD authoring?

MBP 2.4GHz 4MB RAM, 30"cine, MAC PRO 2.6 8 core 6GB RAM, Mbox, Neumann TLM-103, FCP HD 7. Pro Tools 8, Adobe Creative Suite, Reason 3.0, Macromedia Studio, ProAnimator, HVX200 with Firestore v4.0


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Michael SacciRe: DVD duplication issues
by on Feb 18, 2010 at 10:21:00 pm

[Nelson May] "I read somewhere DVDSP doesn't like older DVD players. Is DVDSP not universal for DVD authoring? "

Totally incorrect, DVDSP is fine for authoring. Most of the problems are errors in authoring.

[Nelson May] "but couldn't get it to "end jump" via any remote controls on my MAC or my w year old DVD player."
Never seen this as a common problem, how did you set the end jump.

Also what are the problems your client is having we cannot help with no information to go on.





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Nelson MayRe: DVD duplication issues
by on Feb 18, 2010 at 10:40:20 pm

I am just a little panicked and didn't' write much. I just talked to my client and she thinks it is in the duplication. Out of 300 sets they sold about 25 sets (with 28 half hour lessons) were stopping in some half hour programs and some DVDs weren't coming starting up at all. She was using the masters that I gave her for duplication to run some classes and she said they worked fine. The duplication run was done a lot cheaper this time and I don't know who it was farmed out to. I want to blame the duplication, but I want make proof positive that it isn't me. When I send masters out, I play them and walk through all menus to make sure there are no problems. I do it on my MAC and on a DVD player that is about 2-3 years old.

Let me ask a question. The was answered before, but maybe answered wrong. During burning, I watch the log in during the burn. Sometimes it says.....this wasn't skipped etc. I will burn a DVD tonight and copy the log and paste it in.

Anyway, I am using Tyadio Yuden top of the line for mastering and I know the DVDs play OK from the masters. I can only assume there are some duplication errors, but I want to make sure I am in the clear.

I will paste that log this evening.

Cheers.

MBP 2.4GHz 4MB RAM, 30"cine, MAC PRO 2.6 8 core 6GB RAM, Mbox, Neumann TLM-103, FCP HD 7. Pro Tools 8, Adobe Creative Suite, Reason 3.0, Macromedia Studio, ProAnimator, HVX200 with Firestore v4.0


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Nelson MayRe: DVD duplication issues
by on Feb 18, 2010 at 10:46:12 pm

I can't do an edit to the post, but this is DV footage 30fps, captured from DVD tape into FCP. Exported as a basic DV QT file (standard settings). Moved into compressor and sent out as MPEG and AAC. From there I drag it into DVDSP and build.

MBP 2.4GHz 4MB RAM, 30"cine, MAC PRO 2.6 8 core 6GB RAM, Mbox, Neumann TLM-103, FCP HD 7. Pro Tools 8, Adobe Creative Suite, Reason 3.0, Macromedia Studio, ProAnimator, HVX200 with Firestore v4.0


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eric pautschRe: DVD duplication issues
by on Feb 18, 2010 at 11:19:18 pm

You said the duplication was done on the cheap this time? I think you answered your own question :) Your authoring is correct. A duplication or media problem here I'd be willing to bet. But since we weren't there or have any idea of where this duplication was done, its impossible to tell.



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Michael SacciRe: DVD duplication issues
by on Feb 18, 2010 at 11:33:56 pm

[Nelson May] "Moved into compressor and sent out as MPEG and AAC."
Are you sure it was AAC and not ac3, big different. AAC will be turned into PCM uncompressed audio on the DVD and that could be causing a DATA rate issue.

[Nelson May] "were stopping in some half hour programs and some DVDs weren't coming starting up at all. "
That can very well be a data rate issue. It could also be a duplication issue if poor quality disc where made.

Sorry but you need to slow down and not just throw a little bit of info out. If you want to solve a problem you have to be precise.

Want was you video data rate? Audio?

From your log
Lossless linking is on
That should always be turned off, wish off was the default.



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eric pautschRe: DVD duplication issues
by on Feb 19, 2010 at 12:03:22 am

I'm fairly certain that lossless linking is irrelevant these days. Try it though and see if that helps.



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Michael SacciRe: DVD duplication issues
by on Feb 19, 2010 at 12:38:28 am

it is a force of habit for me, there is zero down side to NOT using it and I think some of the replication errors about sizes of sectors not being correct is caused by this.

By I always uncheck it.



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Nelson MayRe: DVD duplication issues
by on Feb 19, 2010 at 4:57:41 am

Sorry about that, I was a little panicked. I used the setting in compressor for DVD: 120 minutes. 2.0 dolby at 192kbs and MPEG 5Mbps 2 Pass.

My initial video was from DV tape NTSC 30fps, at 48Khz, 16bit mono. I just duplicated the the mono track in FCP and relinked the sound files and made them a stereo pair. I exported under the default .mov settings as a reference file. I assumed default would be 30, with 48Kz 16 it stereo. From there I went to compressor and set a back with the setting in the beginning of the paragraph.

This was all done on FCP2 on a G5 and G4. I didn't have my intel MACs, but again the DVDs worked fine on my DVD player.

I talked to the client and she said of the 25 DVDs sets that had problems, the duplicating company replaced them and she hasn't had any more problems. She went with a low bid on duplication and I am inclined to think they didn't have the best quality. I think the replacement DVDs were produced as needed by another company. In addition, I made a DVD for duplication prior to this project, they were duplicated at a reputable house and there weren't any problems.

I am thinking I am in the clear. Since I never fully learned DVDSP, except the parts I needed to learn, can you direct me to any white papers that may give me more data so I can't make a mistake in the future?

MBP 2.4GHz 4MB RAM, 30"cine, MAC PRO 2.6 8 core 6GB RAM, Mbox, Neumann TLM-103, FCP HD 7. Pro Tools 8, Adobe Creative Suite, Reason 3.0, Macromedia Studio, ProAnimator, HVX200 with Firestore v4.0


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Nelson MayRe: DVD duplication issues
by on Feb 18, 2010 at 11:19:22 pm

Here is my log and I didnt' define a button. Does everything else look aOK at first glance?


Starting DVD Build DVD_1_PROOF...
Compiler Initializing...
Precompiling Project DVD_1_PROOF
Compiling VMG Information...
Created 9 PGCs in VTSM1
Created 5 PGCs in VTSM2
Created 5 PGCs in VTSM3
Created 5 PGCs in VTSM4
Created 8 PGCs in VMG.
2 Menu(s) will be created...
Compiling Menu PGCs...
Compiling Menu#1 (DVD 2 Proof)...
Rendering Menu:DVD 2 Proof,Language:1...

DVD 2 Proof : No Buttons defined!

Compiling Menu#2 (Menu )...
Rendering Menu:Menu ,Language:1...
Writing VIDEO_TS.VOB
Compiling Menu PGCs...
Writing VTS_02_0.VOB
Compiling Menu PGCs...
Writing VTS_03_0.VOB
Compiling Menu PGCs...
Writing VTS_04_0.VOB
4 VTSs and 4 Titles will be created...
Compiling VTS#1 ( Corinthians Lesson 9)...
Muxing VTS_01_1.VOB
Done.
Compiling VTS#2 ( Corinthians Lesson 10)...
Writing VTS_02_0.VOB
Muxing VTS_02_1.VOB
Done.
Compiling VTS#3 ( Corinthians Lesson 11)...
Writing VTS_03_0.VOB
Muxing VTS_03_1.VOB
Done.
Compiling VTS#4 ( Corinthians Lesson 12)...
Writing VTS_04_0.VOB
Muxing VTS_04_1.VOB
Done.
Linking VMG...
Linking VTS#1...
Linking VTS#2...
Linking VTS#3...
Linking VTS#4...
Writing VTS#1...
Writing VTS#2...
Writing VTS#3...
Writing VTS#4...
Writing VMG...
Writing Layout Info...
Compile Completed Successfully
Note: The directory ‘/Users/nelsonmay/Library/Caches/DVD Studio Pro Files/DSPPublishing’ is not a DVD-Video directory and will not be included in the final disc or DLT.
Note: The file ‘DVD_1_PROOF.layout’ found in the ‘VIDEO_TS’ folder is not a DVD-Video file and will not be included in the final disc or DLT.
Note: The file ‘VOB_DATA.LAY’ found in the ‘VIDEO_TS’ folder is not a DVD-Video file and will not be included in the final disc or DLT.
Start formatting
Formatting as Standard DVD
Simulation mode is off
Lossless linking is on
Number of layers is 1
Doing side 1 of 1
Playable in region 1,2,3,4,5,6,8
Disc size is 12 cm
Disc has no copyright material
Writing ISO 9660 directories
Writing UDF 1.02 structures
Writing files
Writing final UDF information
Formatting finished.

MBP 2.4GHz 4MB RAM, 30"cine, MAC PRO 2.6 8 core 6GB RAM, Mbox, Neumann TLM-103, FCP HD 7. Pro Tools 8, Adobe Creative Suite, Reason 3.0, Macromedia Studio, ProAnimator, HVX200 with Firestore v4.0


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eric pautschRe: DVD duplication issues
by on Feb 18, 2010 at 11:20:30 pm

Looks ok to me



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Bouke VahlRe: DVD duplication issues
by on Feb 27, 2010 at 1:53:26 pm

Little late at the party, but just wanted to add:
Duplication vs replication.

Burned disks suck always, but sometimes they suck less.
(I have a complaint percentage of less than 0.1 % on burned disks)
Rule of thumb when i burn (a few thousands a year):
ONLY use Tayo Yuden or Ritek. (i know, some of you like Verbatim, but i don't. Perhaps they are different over here...)
NEVER use VBR
NEVER let the datarate go over 7500
NEVER use printed sticky labels on DVD's
NEVER use dual layer.

For amounts over 200, i replicate rather than duplicate.
2 reasons:
at 200 pieces, price is the same. (More makes replication way cheaper)
Last job i've outsourced was 1.11 euro a piece on a 500 piece order.
That included full color artwork on the disk and inlay, an Ammaray box and packaging. It's close to impossible to beat that if you burn.

With replicated disks the datarate / vbr settings don't matter, go as high as the specs allow, and the disks will play everywhere. (Including old laptops, close to impossible with burned disks.)

And once you got a decent plant, it's easy. No problem at all to master, as DLT is dead.
Nowadays you deliver your files over the internet.
For the mentioned job i've FTP'd my work to the plant (about 850 KM from here). They shipped the disks to my client. No effort at all...
So why bother to burn (Unless you're in a terrible hurry. Delivery time from a plant is normally at least 7 days unless you're a real good customer...)




Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pro's


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Nelson MayRe: DVD duplication issues
by on Feb 27, 2010 at 6:44:48 pm

I Just used the default setting in STP after I built them. I also used the defaults from compressor. SV NTSC 30Fps 48, 16bit to compressor - (120 minute preset) to building the DVDs. I burned with STP and handed the masters directly to the client. I allowed STP to do all the work. I also use Tado Yudens.

I am pretty sure it is in the duplication house. I have burned two sets of masters and they play fine. I am trying to get my client to let me upload the files to the server.

I think this was a job that someone really did a low bid on. They may have cut corners with quality.

MBP 2.4GHz 4MB RAM, 30"cine, MAC PRO 2.6 8 core 6GB RAM, Mbox, Neumann TLM-103, FCP HD 7. Pro Tools 8, Adobe Creative Suite, Reason 3.0, Macromedia Studio, ProAnimator, HVX200 with Firestore v4.0


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eric pautschRe: DVD duplication issues
by on Feb 27, 2010 at 6:54:09 pm

I think the biggest lesson here is not to cut corners. Know your dulicator/replicator well (as in, go visit them and make sure you understand they're workflows) . Have a set price with a good dupe house and refuse work from people who can't make the budget....period.



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Rob JonesRe: DVD duplication issues
by on Apr 8, 2010 at 3:04:42 pm

In response to the above poster regarding replication vs duplication.

Yes there are differences in the manufacturing process, however, duplicated discs are no way near as bad as the poster is making out.

They use to cause far more problems in the early days of CD burning (10-15 years ago), however newer CD players and DVD players can handle duplicated discs just fine mostly.

For more info on the diferences in the 2 process you can see here:

CD Duplication Vs CD Replication

Duplicazione CD


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