Why do I lose all sensation of speed on DVD?
by Chris Simpson
on
Aug 14, 2009 at 7:22:37 pm
I posted this in Sony DV, possibly by mistake, now that I've found a DVD Studio Pro sub forum.
But here's the thing.
This may seems odd, but I've creating multi can event dvds of karting. Using HDV and DV cameras, recording HDV and miniDV obviously, when I'm editing it in Final Cut Pro, or even viewing H264 files for upload and then viewing them on line on say vimeo, there's a distinct impression of speed, actual speeds are up to 80miles an hour, not massively quick but then again I'm videoing fairly close say 5-200m, and there is a lot of circuit furniture, barriers and lighting pylons, etc, so there's plenty of things to provide contrast, while when I output using DVD Studio Pro, to output to DVD, I find there's a distinct loss of the sensation of speed, like you could run faster. The video runs the same length of time, but it just looks and feels slower.One or two others have commented how tame it all looks, on dvd.
I fear it could be inherent problem with interlaced video, that my Mac Pro cinema monitor, gives the appearance of speed due to it being progressive, and making it choppy, and giving the sensation of speed?
Anyway any settings in DVD Studio Pro, perhaps Compressor (I'm using the standard Apple Best Quality Mpeg2 DVD 90 or 120min settings, or maybe on the sony cameras that should know?
Re: Why do I lose all sensation of speed on DVD? by Chris Simpson on Aug 14, 2009 at 8:12:05 pm
I hear you, I'm thinking that its lower quality of on line flash video, or watching on a computer monitor, is in fact making it look quicker due to "lo fi" frame rate etc. While interlaced the higher quality is spoiling the sensation. In the same way everyone bangs on about cine-look at 24fps.
Now should I moan that the colour looks more saturated on my monitor, and a little washed out on DVD. What do you mean 4:2:0 HDV, DV colour space.
Re: Why do I lose all sensation of speed on DVD? by Michael Sacci on Aug 14, 2009 at 8:32:43 pm
[Chris Simpson]"What do you mean 4:2:0 HDV, DV colour space." I don't think i brought that up.
HDV has 4:2:0 but so does DVD. The problem is DV is 4:1:1 so there is even more color lose. If you want to get the tech behind the different color space you should google it, There is plenty of good stuff on the web and wiki.
Did you color correct your video, if you don't at least push the blacks to zero and open up the mids video can look washed out pretty quickly.
24p doesn't make thing look faster, there is a look and it would not be as smooth as interlace but the we thing are perceived is hard to combat, it something looks slower with one delivery method over the other there is not too much you can do, except speed up the footage but that might make it look fake.
Re: Why do I lose all sensation of speed on DVD? by Chris Simpson on Aug 14, 2009 at 9:28:23 pm
I regret I don't have the time that would allow such a liberty to colour correct footage properly, or a reference monitor that I can trust. I have to produce a 100min DVD of an event within 2/3 weeks tops, these events are monthly. I've managed to reduce the workflow, following shoot to about 100hours work to finish dvd, and this is around a day job. So I have not much more than opportunity to white balance the 6 or 7 cameras on the day.
I'm curious about the blacks, and opening up the mids, can you point in the right direction in terms of reading, and the particular effects to use FCP, although I'm guessing you might talking of Colour, I find the interface not very intuitive, and my customers, are not bothered enough, they're more concerned with it being produced as soon as possible, more onboard camera footage, and getting all the crashes, and the post race arguments. I'm thinking of purchasing an updated version of Magic Bullet having seen Philip Blooms review of it. It looks much more usable than the MBE I used with Premiere Pro on my PC in 2005.
Re: Why do I lose all sensation of speed on DVD? by Michael Sacci on Aug 14, 2009 at 9:40:54 pm
You can do a very good job in FCP with the 3-way CC. What I'm talking about is making sure there is the most dynamic contrast range in your footage, Doing so makes a world of difference but it does take time, not days but time. the manual will give you the basic on adjusting the blacks (taking them down to zero) and then adjusting the mids and highlights. This really needs to be done shoot by shoot but you can fly throw it if you have to.
"Time is the predator that hurts us all." or something like that.
Re: Why do I lose all sensation of speed on DVD? by Chris Simpson on Aug 16, 2009 at 11:44:30 am
I hear what you're saying guys. I have some of your Call Box DVDs Noah, I'm a bit of a fan.
The trouble is always 'time', and getting some one to pay for it!as much as I'd like to do plenty of finessing of footage with colour correction, and IMAX would be nice, I find the trouble is my clients can't see and never seem bothered that I could improve the look by say 10-20% but it might add a week to the final product delivery. Similar with the cameras I'm using, a Sony HDV V1 and 5 tele converted HC Sony HDV cameras, I can see they are better than miniDV Handycams, and a couple ContourHD POVs, usually its all downconverted to DV, when ingesting to FCP because log and transfer doesn't work on HDV or Pro Res, and I have capture now on HDV/Pro Res, and in truth the output is mainly to DVD. So DV is "enough".
It's really me who'd like to take more time, and say invest in say another 2 or 3 V1s or Z5's, 20x zoom's, would improve the look noticeably (I can see the difference in the footage between the V1 and the HCs, or ideally some solid state, file transfer cameras, HVX, EX1 etc to improve the final output, although somebody would have to pay for all that! While my clients, are more than happy with, say 80% of what I could produce, rather than invest in either my time, or contribute to improved equioment, settling for relative lo-fi.
As I say I essentially have 100 hours, post production, including graphics and commentary, following shoot to turn out a 100min dvd. I'm actually pleased I can do that, but it means corners have to be cut, and one or two rough edges remain in, and the opportunity to do more or better is lost.
Ho hum. Nature of the beast. At least it appears the sensation of speed is not lost due to something I'm missing.
