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URGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree

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Alan LangdonURGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 5, 2008 at 3:49:47 pm

Hello.


I authored a DVD using DVDSP 4.1 (the recent version updated with FCP 6 (FCP Studio 2). Some of the tracks I used were converted using FCP 5.1 (exported straight to m2v/aiff using Quicktime Conversion), others using Compressor coming from FCP6 and yet others were imported in DVDSP raw, DV NTSC and encoded within DVDSP.

Tested the DVD, works fine.

Then sent it to a duplication (is this the term?) facility (Videolar, in Brazil, were I work), which asked for DDP 2.00, CMF 1.00 or DDP 2.10 format. I exported from DVSP all three formats, which each generated a DVD folder (VIDEO_TS + AUDIO_TS) as well as a folder named TAPE FILES. Appparently, the TAPE FILES folder is the only one they need for this duplication process, am I correct?

But the problem is that they have received several burns I have made, using this approach, and they keep sending me back the error message that "VOBU length & number of sectors disagree".
Apparently the Control File informs: 226, while the actual read on the Master: 177

While my DVD-Rs are high quality RIDATA media burned at slowest speed and verified with Toast Titanium 9, the DVD-Rs are NOT "For Authoring" nor is my burner a pro burner, but they said this is not necessary because I am sending images of the DVDs. I am using 2 different burners, internal 2008 PowerMac DualCore SuperDrive as well as external FW burner which is 2 years old almost).

What am I doing wrong? Is it a problem with the encoding? Is it some disparity between the VIDEO_TS folder and the TAPE FILES dvd? Any light on this issue will help save me from a frustrating job...!

They think its some error while recording the Master. Now which is the Master: the one containing VIDEO_TS folder or the TAPE FILES one?

thanks,
ALan Langdon


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Lucas FazzaryRe: URGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 5, 2008 at 4:14:40 pm

"Appparently, the TAPE FILES folder is the only one they need for this duplication process, am I correct?"

-Yes the DDP 2.0 or CMF 1.0 (tape files as you call them) are the formats needed for replication. If you have no copy protection maybe you should send a playable DVD-R for them to Premaster. If your playable DVD-R has the same issues then it is an issue during multiplexing. If the error is not present then it is an issue with DVDSP writing the DDP.

"What am I doing wrong? Is it a problem with the encoding?"

-This has nothing to do with the encoding. This all lies in the build/format stage.


VOBU length & number of sectors disagree can cause playability issues. So you need to make sure this gets corrected.

Anytime I have seen this error I have advised the client to rebuild/format the project to a new folder and resubmit the DDP. That has seemed to correct it on occasion. Make sure you are using the newest version of DVDSP as well (4.2 I believe).

This has nothing to do with you sending the master on DVD-R or your burner. I have had this error with DLT's as well.

So if you haven't already done so update you DVDSP and rebuild your project to a clean folder and resubmit your DDP files and see if that corrects.

Let us know how it works out.

-Luke



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Alan LangdonRe: URGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 5, 2008 at 4:37:07 pm

Thanks for the advice.
But i have already done your suggestion: re-build from scratch the DVD, not reusing any folders, and then exported all 3 formats: DDP 2.00, CMF 1.00 and DDP 2.10, and apparently none have worked, ALL claim the same error at mastering:
"VOBU length & number of sectors disagree".
Apparently the Control File informs: 226, while the actual read on the Master: 177

The mastering facility did not mention the possibility of testing with a playeable DVD-R, but I asusme they would have done this: I have sent several of them along whith each attempt of TAPE FILES dvd-rs... But then, as someone noted, DVD mastering facilities are not our friends :)

I will double check my version of DVDSP. I also own a G5 iMac, should I try using it? Doens't sound like the issue lies outside DVDSP, though, from what you say.

Thanks,
Alan



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Lucas FazzaryRe: URGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 5, 2008 at 4:44:01 pm

Yes rebuild your project on your G5. It sounds like you are having an issue with your version of DVDSP muxing or writing the DDP and CMF formats. See if they did try with your playable DVD-R and if that resulted in the same issue.

-Luke



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Alan LangdonRe: URGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 5, 2008 at 4:46:56 pm

My fear is that the G5 version of DVDSP 4.1 might not be forward compatible with the DualCore version I am now using... I'll check.

I also have read some threads suggesting people to burn straight in DVDSP, instead of images to the HD and then use Toast. I'll try this too.
I also have read about trying using a USB PenDrive instead of DVD-R...

Thanks,
Alan



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Lucas FazzaryRe: URGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 5, 2008 at 5:13:07 pm

This error doesn't necessarily have to do with burning or where you output to. It could have to do with a cell being written incorrectly, multiplexing bug in DVDSP etc.

Did you use DVDSP to trim any video perhaps? This could be confusing the multiplexor.

I wonder if going into the outline view in DVDSP and move one of your tracks to a different location would help.

This is a tough error, but like I said Most of my clients have just reoutput the DVD and it was fixed.

-Luke



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Alan Langdon VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 21, 2008 at 10:02:10 pm

Wow, this thread has givem birth to much productive discussion...!
Just as a heads up, since I started this particular one, I sent to the mastering facility some disks burnt as DVD-ROM UDF and all seemed to work fine, so in my particular case it wasn´t the media but how I was burning in Toast (previously I was burning as Mac & PC data disks...




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Trai ForresterRe: URGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 6, 2008 at 4:04:00 pm

Hi Alan,

This error is almost exclusively returned on Images submitted on DVD-R, and is Eclipse's (Image verification software your replicator is using) way of saying that it couldn't read the Image data on one or more sections of disc. It is rarely (does happen though) an authoring system problem. I've only seen an authoring system output this error to hard drive/DLT a few times in 6 years. In fact, several times a month I get discs sent to me with this error at the plant and I find the Images are perfect - all were submitted on DVD-R.

Of course, I've found in most of these cases the replicator repeatedly told the author it was a problem with their image. In the cases they didn't tell the author it was their Image - they didn't say anything. But at least your replicator didn't go ahead and replicate - which happens all the time, too. I just finished troubleshooting a replication job where the discs were having problems playing back and even navigating - 10 discs (Hollywood A titles redone for European release), and they all had the dreaded "VOBU length & number of sectors disagree" errors on them - plus some other errors I thought I'd never live to see on a replicated DVD!

So, it's at least good your replicator has alerted you.

Here's the explanation of the error, as provided by the Eclipse ImageAnalysis program that your replicator used to test your DVD:

-------------------
"The calculated length of the VOBU and the length specified in the DSI field disagree.

The length of the VOBU is calculated using the address of the Navigational Pack and the length as specified in the DSI field (NV_PCK + VOBU_EA = LENGTH). During the analysis, the EclipseSuite tools read from the beginning of the VOBU until they reach the next NV_PCK, which indicates the end of the current VOBU and the beginning of the next. The EclipseSuite tools keep count of the number of sectors that make up the VOBU. If the number of sectors does not equal to the length specified in the VOBU_EA field then this error occurs.

In most cases, this problem has caused playability problems. It is for this reason that it is considered an error."
-----------------

Which means, a very high percentage of the time...if the replicators' optical drive drops a few sectors during the read of your DVD-R, they'll get the error, even if the Image is fine. Remember, even if a DVD-R is written perfectly on the best media, other optical drives out there can and will have problems reading it, at times (source: experience, and the NIST DVD Compatibility studies results - part of their results found on page two of my "Why Verify the DVD" article) - just one reason why DVD-R is not a suitable carrier for DVD Images to be used in mastering.

The only defense is submitting on DLT (I wouldn't use DLT 4000 drives, I've seen this same error twice over the years on tapes output by this super slow, old DLT drive) or hard drive or go with FTP; keeping the DVD production process off of optical media all the way to the very end, when it finally becomes a stamped DVD-Video DVD-ROM.

Though, Lucas couldn't bring himself to recommend that you resubmit on hard drive this next time, in his many replies (he works at a replication plant, after all :-), I'd say for sure do it, and make that your practice from now on (Please just send them DDP 2.0, nothing else); you've got to get the DVD-Recordable variable out of the equation to find out what is really going on.

Resubmitting on hard drive will either fix the issue, or determine that there is, indeed, a problem with your image. Then, it would be good to get someone to look at your Image - not too hard to fix, just got to find out where in the project the error occurs (you didn't give Eclipse's reported sector number location of the error), and see what the heck you and/or DVD SP might have done. :-)

Of course, I should say, before I would ever dream of submitting my authoring studio clients' Images to the replicator, an Eclipse ImageAnalysis test (through Eclipse ImageCopy) and other tests, are performed; That way, there's never a holdup or other surprises at the plant. But that's just me?

Good luck and take care,

Trai

--
Trai Forrester
TFDVD Research Labs
DVDVerification.com






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ALan LangdonRe: URGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 8, 2008 at 2:46:26 pm

Thanks, Tray, for the lengthy reasponse. Living and learning.
I will check for possible trimming within DVDSP 4.2.1, as well as try moving the track in the outline view.
The mastering facility, Brazil´s largest aparently, refuses to accept Pen Drive or Hard Drive, only accepting DVD-R and DLT... Annoying policy.
I am going to try your suggestions as well as burn using the internal drive of my MacBookPro (I need to looks into the manufacturer´s recomended media for this MATSHITA DVD-R UJ-857E) also straight from DVDSP 4.2.1 instead of Toast Titanium 9.

Thanks,
Alan



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Bryan EdwardsRe:VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Feb 3, 2011 at 8:40:21 pm

Okay long story short I am having this same error. NTSC masters work fine, when I create PAL masters (new separate masters) the European replicator is kicking back with the VOBU/sector error. I am using DVDSP creating DDP 2.0 masters and sending them via FTP. I create md5checksums for each layer. What do I need to do/how much does it cost to have you fix it? Or can it be fixed at all. The overall tone of this thread seemed to be one of: "it happens sometimes just reexport and see if that fixes it." Problem is that costs my company time and money, and I need a more concrete fix.

Thank you for your time and assistance with this.

Bryan Edwards


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Alexander KallasRe: Re:VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Feb 4, 2011 at 10:23:44 pm

[Bryan Edwards] "Okay long story short I am having this same error. NTSC masters work fine, when I create PAL masters (new separate masters) the European replicator is kicking back with the VOBU/sector error. I am using DVDSP creating DDP 2.0 masters and sending them via FTP. I create md5checksums for each layer. What do I need to do/how much does it cost to have you fix it? Or can it be fixed at all. The overall tone of this thread seemed to be one of: "it happens sometimes just reexport and see if that fixes it." Problem is that costs my company time and money, and I need a more concrete fix.

How did you create your PAL version video?

Cheers
Alexander


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Bryan EdwardsRe: Re:VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Feb 4, 2011 at 10:45:39 pm

PAL elements are being exported from an FCP timeline using Compressor. PAL m2v and the ac3 files are then imported into DVDSP and I build out the master. Exact same process as the NTSC masters which are working flawlessly. I have scoured the PAL project file and there is nothing wrong with the build, burned DVDs played them on 6 different players, and in laptops no issues. However the replicator is saying this could be a potential issues some players and so they are kicking back the masters. Have delivered on DLT's and via ftp. No luck. I rebuilt the file from scratch again as it seems to be the common theme on this thread to: "try it again and see what happens". I am wondering if there is not something more concrete a fix than that method?! I am wondering if it has something to do with the dual layer break point?

Any help would be appreciated, thanks!

--Bryan


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Alan LangdonRe: Re:VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Feb 6, 2011 at 10:27:56 pm

Wow, this thread is an old one and with lots of entries alng the way, but this one (which I am replying) seems to be the most recent.
Back when I encountered this problem, I solved it by burning in the lowest speed possible, and under the Toast option DVDROM-UDF. I can't be sure, its been a while (should have posted a final resolution message), but I think that solved it... Sorry I can't help any more on this one.



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Alexander KallasRe: URGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 7, 2008 at 3:00:28 am

Alan,
How did you write these files?
In Toast you should use DVD-ROM UDF, NOT ISO- 9660, the latter will read short in a Windows machine, which is what the Replicator has probably used.

Cheers
Alexander


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Trai ForresterRe: URGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 7, 2008 at 1:44:22 pm

Good one, Alexander,

There would need to be an additional "End of Input encountered" Eclipse error if the Image got cut off, though.

The DDPID file contains the Data Stream length, in sectors. If this value is shorter than the actual number of sectors in found in the Main data file (MAIN.DAT), then the error is returned.

Writing incorrectly out of Toast like what you describe, bites an amazing number of good folks; and worse, many replicators will go ahead and replicate the truncated Images anyway! Not pretty.

For sure, submitting on hard drive or DLT or by FTP avoids this potential minefield completely, as well (you know I'm not going to get off my "No-to-DVD-R Image Submission" until it's driven home - and parked :-)

Take care,

Trai

--
Trai Forrester
TFDVD Research Labs
DVD Verification.com







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Alexander KallasRe: URGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 7, 2008 at 11:09:22 pm

[Trai Forrester] "Writing incorrectly out of Toast like what you describe, bites an amazing number of good folks; and worse, many replicators will go ahead and replicate the truncated Images anyway! Not pretty.
For sure, submitting on hard drive......."


OK Trai, what format for the HD (or flash card, if that would work?)



Cheers
Alexander


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Alex AspRe: URGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 8, 2008 at 2:27:12 am

Since most (if not all) replication plants use Windows only machines (Eclipse suits don't run on anything else) your valid option would be a hard drive formatted as NTFS. I don't remember if FAT32 formatted drives will support files bigger than 2 Gb, and if they don't you are in trouble, as most DDP images tend to be bigger than that. To be on the safe side with an external drive you need a PC or a Parallels/VM Ware/BootCamp running on an Intel Mac.

All this really warrants using a DLT drive and media to stay out of trouble. I had quite a number of failed projects in one month to convince me to go back to DLT, and recently I have seen a couple of major releases from Warner and Universal failing at the plant because they were submitted on DVD-R's. The worst thing for your business is a begrudged client (who never understands any technicalities and never cares) saying a mantra-like "why, it is always trouble with you".



Alex Asp/Solaris Digital Ltd.


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Alexander KallasRe: URGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 8, 2008 at 12:51:37 pm

[Alex Asp] "All this really warrants using a DLT drive and media to stay out of trouble. I had quite a number of failed projects in one month to convince me to go back to DLT,"

So with no DLT what option do you recommend?



Cheers
Alexander


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Lucas FazzaryRe: URGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 8, 2008 at 2:33:59 pm

I'll jump back in.

Hopefully I answer a few questions in the last couple posts.

"Though, Lucas couldn't bring himself to recommend that you resubmit on hard drive this next time, in his many replies (he works at a replication plant, after all :-), I'd say for sure do it, and make that your practice from now on (Please just send them DDP 2.0, nothing else); you've got to get the DVD-Recordable variable out of the equation to find out what is really going on."

I agree, my apologies for not clearly suggesting this. I was hoping that since they already had a playable DVD-R for them to try that first. If the problem exists on this master as well then you can rule out the output to DDP as an issue. This leaves two possible causes. Either the multiplexing is having an issue or the DVD-R is the culprit. However I will say this, and I went back through my logs for the past year and have had this issue 8 times. 3 times on DLT, 2 on external HD, and 3 images submitted DDP on DVD-R. I have never encountered this issue on a playable DVD-R, only with DDP images. This is why I always suggest the client to re-output the DDP files and 7 out of 8 times it worked correctly. For the 8th master the client wanted to move forward with replication because that exact master was used for replication at another plant with the same error and they found no (reported) playability issues. Waiver signed and on we rolled.

I wish I could say this was an issue with our DLT drive but when you run The job in 3 other DLT drives (DLT 1000, 4000, 7000, 8000) and the error is in the exact location everytime then I know our drives are functioning properly. I do the same with the DDP on DVD-R submissions. The reason behind this is because Eclipse behaves differently with different drives/configurations. So if a job fails in one drive it is tested on two different Eclipse systems with every drive configuration you could imagine (internal/external/SCSI/Firewire/Eclipse 5.2/4.1/6.0 beta).

So in short this is what lead me to believe it is an authoring issue. Not saying that it could be something else but in my experience these were my findings.

"what format for the HD (or flash card, if that would work?)"

you should use a NTFS formatted HD. For HFS formatted Apple drives we use MACDrive and have had no issues. This is something you should ask your replicator first on how they accept images.

"So with no DLT what option do you recommend?"

DDP 2.0 on external HD, FTP it or ahem DDP on DVD-R. With bandwidth growing our image submissions via FTP has been growing as well.

-Luke



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Alexander KallasRe: URGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 9, 2008 at 5:58:02 am

So if no DLT...(which are not bullet-proof)
Hard drive submissions are also not without problems.
In defence of DVD-R, surely if the VIDEO-TS folder from the same build as the Layer"0", plays correctly, isn't this enough verification of the DDP 2.00 file?
I also know that the VLC media player on Windows can play the main data file in layer"0",
shouldn't that suffice?

Cheers
Alexander


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Alex AspRe: URGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 9, 2008 at 6:59:16 am

[Alexander Kallas] "So if no DLT...(which are not bullet-proof)
Hard drive submissions are also not without problems."


Let me summarize what's been already said (in order of reliability)

1. DLT
2. DDP image on a Hard Drive / via FTP
3. DDP image on DVD-R formatted as DVD-ROM (UDF)
4. DVD-Video (VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders) on DVD-R formatted UDF.

Even if your customer is always right he never knows and usually doesn't want to know why's and wherefore's.

[Alexander Kallas] "In defence of DVD-R, surely if the VIDEO-TS folder from the same build as the Layer"0", plays correctly, isn't this enough verification of the DDP 2.00 file?"

The short answer is NO.
[Alexander Kallas] "I also know that the VLC media player on Windows can play the main data file in layer"0",
shouldn't that suffice?"


VLC player on Mac can do that as well, but the short answer is still NO.

Alex Asp/Solaris Digital Ltd.


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Alexander KallasRe: URGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 9, 2008 at 7:47:59 am

[Alex Asp] "[Alexander Kallas] "In defence of DVD-R, surely if the VIDEO-TS folder from the same build as the Layer"0", plays correctly, isn't this enough verification of the DDP 2.00 file?"
The short answer is NO.

[Alexander Kallas] "I also know that the VLC media player on Windows can play the main data file in layer"0",
shouldn't that suffice?"
VLC player on Mac can do that as well, but the short answer is still NO.


Hi Alex, thanks for the answers, but why the no???





Cheers
Alexander


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Alex AspRe: URGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 9, 2008 at 8:32:31 am

DVD-R's are prone to manufacturing errors, scratches and unrecoverable read errors. This is why a VIDEO_TS folder from the same build as the DDP image might be not the same and therefore number of sectors might disagree.

Playing DDP image using VLC is not a verification, but a demonstration of playability.

Alex Asp/Solaris Digital Ltd.


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Alexander KallasRe: URGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 10, 2008 at 12:01:57 pm

[Alex Asp] "DVD-R's are prone to manufacturing errors, scratches and unrecoverable read errors. This is why a VIDEO_TS folder from the same build as the DDP image might be not the same and therefore number of sectors might disagree.

"Might" also be accurate.

Playing DDP image using VLC is not a verification, but a demonstration of playability"

.
Isn't playability the first sign of accuracy?

The point here is any dependable replicator (ask Luke) will use Eclipse to test your product, be it DVD-R, or the DLT feed, this is the arbritator, not the media it was delivered on.
The "DLT or nothing" advocates either
1. have something to sell.
or
2. Have never talked straight to a replicator who knows his stuff.

Do we really have to go and get DLTs or never succeed?
And FTP? too many ways to say the file delivered was inaccurate, with no backup proof.

Cheers
Alexander


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cowcowcowcowcow
Lucas FazzaryRe: URGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 10, 2008 at 1:57:32 pm

Hey Alexander, in my opinion you do not need DLT to succeed. As a matter of fact I can't wait for DLT's to go away completely. Which they most certainly are on that track. If DLT was so great wouldn't Blu-ray have adopted this format?

DLT, DVD-R, HD, FTP all have their downsides, but remember they are only a means to transport your data to another location. Everything is still little 1's and 0's, no matter what you write your files too.

Of course now this thread has kind of steered away from the original topic.

I wonder how that's going now anyhow? Alan??






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Alan LangdonVOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 10, 2008 at 8:07:05 pm

This is why I like CreativeCow and the internet: here we are, continents appart, discussing 0s and 1s. I have solved many issues by sharing with people on user groups, especially Creative Cow.

So, I have heard people say its a problem within the DVDSP program, and others say its the delivery format/media. I still haven't solved the issue, but am working on a excessive strategy now: I bought every brand of DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-RW and DVD+RW I could find on the island I live on (Florianopolis, Brazil) and am burning 2 of each brand, one using my internal MacBookPro drive and the other using my external Pioneer FW burner. The mastering facility is going to have to deal with about 15 diferent disks, but this is the price they pay for not accepting PenDrive or HD (only DLT and DVD-R, the two extremes apparently).

The most recent advice I have received which has given me hope is burning as DVD-ROM UDF from Toast 9 (I know, I haven't been doing this and should be flogged... I was using the Data:Mac and PC option). I also re-encoded with Compressor the media that was being directly encoded by DVDSP, as well as "moved tracks around in the outline view" as Trai suggested. In other words, didn't quite re-create the project but gave it a refresh that might be enough.

Anyway, I am currently burning tons of DVDs, all at slowest burning and verifying speeds and then will mail them to the mastering facility and let you guys know what happens.


Thanks and keeping in touch,
Alan Langdon



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Lucas FazzaryRe: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 10, 2008 at 9:29:09 pm

Hey Alan, when burning your DDP on DVD-R using Toast, definitely use the UDF setting. I must have missed where you said that in any previous post. Another thing I want to mention is when burning in Toast Burn the DVD so that your DDP is in the Layer0/Layer1 folder. Each Layer gets it's own DVD-R. Do not burn the DDP files to the root of the disc. When Toast burns using UDF it automatically adds the ds store files to the root. You do not want these included with your DDP files. Thus burning the entire folder will keep your DDP separate from the DS files.

Eclipse should ignore the DS/DB files that Toast adds but it's better to be safe than sorry.

Good luck.

-Luke



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Alan LangdonRe: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 10, 2008 at 10:05:57 pm

Thanks... What I am doing is burning a DVD-ROM UDF called "Desilusao TAPE FILES" which contains a folder caled Layer0.




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Alex AspRe: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 11, 2008 at 4:13:01 am

[Alan Langdon] "What I am doing is burning a DVD-ROM UDF called "Desilusao TAPE FILES" which contains a folder caled Layer0."
n
This is a fatal mistake. Your DVD-ROM should be called Layer0 with DDP files at the root directory, and you do this by dragging the folder into Toast window. Replication plants will usually reject a DVD-R master that contains the Layer0 folder.

Alex Asp/Solaris Digital Ltd.


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Alan Langdonfatal mistake
by on Sep 11, 2008 at 2:41:44 pm

Alex, thanks so much. Although a fatal mistake (and much time and posting has been wasted, I apologize), I hope it is the one I can fix by simply burning a DVD-ROM named "Layer 0" with all the contents of the DDP export.
I'll keep you guys posted... I did actually check the archives, but there is so much on this topic that eventually I gave up on reading previous posts deeper and deeper and decided to sample the current advice on the matter.
Thanks for the patience, folks, I hope the ride is almost over (and onward to a nicely mastered DVD!)

Alan Langdon



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Alexander KallasRe: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 12, 2008 at 1:42:47 am

[Alex Asp] "This is a fatal mistake. Your DVD-ROM should be called Layer0 with DDP files at the root directory, and you do this by dragging the folder into Toast window. Replication plants will usually reject a DVD-R master that contains the Layer0 folder. "

Your post appears contradictory.
Do you mean drag the contents of the Layer0 folder to the DVD-ROM (UDF) window which you have labeled as Layer0 in Toast via clicking on New Disc?




Cheers
Alexander


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Alex AspRe: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 12, 2008 at 4:07:22 am

Open Toast application. In the left side of the window click on Data and then chose DVD-ROM (UDF). Drag and drop Layer0 folder into the content area (right). Toast will automatically name the disc as the folder you just dropped and will put the contents of the folder at the root level.

No need to click New Disc button.
What is contradictory about it?

Alex Asp/Solaris Digital Ltd.


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Alexander KallasRe: URGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 10, 2008 at 11:30:33 pm

Great post Luke,
You've lifted us out of ignorance into reality.

Cheers
Alexander


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Alex AspRe: URGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 11, 2008 at 4:15:45 am

Not to mention this has been discussed almost ad nuseam. You should have checked the archives.
:-)

Alex Asp/Solaris Digital Ltd.


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Alex AspRe: URGENT: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 11, 2008 at 4:30:00 am

[Alexander Kallas] "The point here is any dependable replicator (ask Luke) will use Eclipse to test your product, be it DVD-R, or the DLT feed, this is the arbritator, not the media it was delivered on.
The "DLT or nothing" advocates either
1. have something to sell.
or
2. Have never talked straight to a replicator who knows his stuff."



I can't speak for Trai, and I am sure he has more to say on the subject, but you are wrong in your assumption.
1. I have nothing to sell
2. I talk to various replicators on a weekly basis, I am sure the guys from Technicolor, Cinram and Sony know their stuff.
3. My personal experience in the last months shows that even the most reliable, top of the line premium discs like Verbatim and Maxell started to be prone to defects, and this is why I went back to DLT.

I can't afford losing clients over unreliability of the media. If it is different for you, be my guest.

Alex Asp/Solaris Digital Ltd.


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Lucas FazzaryUPDATE!!!! Re: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 17, 2008 at 5:12:23 pm

Hey Guys, a client of ours just submitted DDP from DVDSP for replication. Upon running Eclipse Image copy I got the "VOBU length" error. This occurred on both the DDP on DVD-R and DDP submitted via FTP. I inquired with Eclipse (again) about this error and this is what was said straight from Eclipse support.

"The “VOBU length & number of sectors disagree” error that we have seen has mostly been from DVD Studio Pro. The only true way to fix this is per your recommendation. The image needs to be resubmitted back to authoring. "Hopefully" the second time it is output you will not have this issue, but the best thing would be for the authoring company to check with their software vendor for a fix to this problem.

Here is a some information on this problem.

Each Video Object Unit (Vobu) on a DVD is made up of packets of information (actual playback data) which starts with a Navigational Pack (NAV) and ends with the occurrence of the next Navigational pack. Within each Nav pack is a field called the DSI information (VOBU_EA .) This DSI information includes the total number of sectors that make up this Vobu. Eclipse goes one step further by actually counting the Actual number of information packs (sectors) between each of the navigational packs and comparing this to the DSI number.
If the DSI and Actual numbers do not match then either there are missing sectors in the VOBU or the VOBU_EA number is incorrect. If there are missing sectors in the VOBU, that could cause playability issues, even if the players do not access the VOBU_EA.

If you look at your warning of this type. "Vobu length and Number of Sectors Disagree" DSI: 135 <> Actual 47.

This means that the player is expecting to read 135 sectors before the occurrence of the next Navigational pack. When Eclipse counts the sectors we are reading an actual value of 47 sectors before the next navigational pack.
As you can see a playback system would have problems with this if it expects more data and the data actually gets truncated. For this potential playability issue we list this as an error.

I don't believe having more Actual sectors than the DSI specifies will have an effect on playback, but it is still a specification violation."



So this tells me exactly what I have been telling all of you. It is not a media issue it is an authoring issue. I hope this helps Alan so you dont have to send every different type of media at your replicator to get your job to pass.

-Luke



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Alexander KallasRe: UPDATE!!!! VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 18, 2008 at 12:39:05 am

Trai, any comment?

Cheers
Alexander


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Alex AspRe: UPDATE!!!! VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 18, 2008 at 5:58:25 am

I've seen this type of failure scenarios (no pun intended) played out for Scenarist-authored, DVDLAB-authored, Sonic Creator-authored and almost every other authoring platform openly available on the market.
Recently I've seen failed replication masters submitted on DVD-R from Warner and Universal, and those guys don't use DVD Studio Pro, but proprietary systems from Toshiba and Panasonic.
Lucas "discovery" seems to be very typical of any replicator to blame the authoring and the software used to author the title for any Eclipse verification failures.
In my experience the most consistently error-free output was from DVD AfterEdit running under MacOS X 10.4.

Alex Asp/Solaris Digital Ltd.


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Lucas FazzaryRe: UPDATE!!!! VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 18, 2008 at 1:15:45 pm

Alex this isn't my discovery this is what Eclipse said. It is most likely the authoring. For you to say this is typical for a replicator to blame the author is simply not true and a very rude statement that I am taking as an attack on me. You see I am a DVD author as well. I author with Scenarist and DVDSP every day. So this would not make sense for me to blame anyone unless I am sure of what the problem is.

Alex, do you use Eclipse? How do you see these errors? You see companies like Warner, New Line, and other studios only send there work to certain replicators. So do you work at a replicator?

I am here to help not bash others.

Oh and Trai thanks for calling my work last week. I hope you got whatever answers you were looking for.

-Luke





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Alex AspRe: UPDATE!!!! VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 18, 2008 at 5:20:12 pm

Luke,
I never intended to bash anyone, and if you took my post personally, that's just too bad. I cited my personal experience in all cases.
In my line of work I also supervise replication jobs for Warners and Universal that are not sent to their usual Cinram and Technicolor plants, but replicated locally, so I see the Eclipse errors and reports. I've seen errors that Eclipse interpreted as caused by possible re-authoring on projects that never been re-authored, and those came on DVD-R's.
Unfortunately optical recordable media is not as reliable as it used to be in the days of authoring drives and media - this is totally my opinion. This list and this thread is not a pissing contest, and I really have no intention to argue on the subject anymore.

Alex Asp/Solaris Digital Ltd.


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Trai ForresterRe: UPDATE!!!! VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 18, 2008 at 7:53:19 pm

Yes, Alexander,

I do have something to say. All will be set aright, shortly. It's just been 'around the clock' over here the last couple of weeks,

Thanks and talk soon,

Trai

--
Trai Forrester
TFDVD Research Labs
DVDVerification.com






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Edward YoungerRe: UPDATE!!!! VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 18, 2008 at 10:58:00 pm

I was made aware of this thread and wanted to add some comments from the Eclipse perspective.

We did indeed tell Lucas that this is a common authoring problem that we associate with DVDSP. In hindsight, we probably should not have singled out Apple as the cause of this as we have seen the error from other authoring systems as well. I think our statement that the majority of the time the error is associated with DVDSP comes from the fact that the Apple tool is used so pervasively in the market.

In many cases, this error is associated with a physical media problem. If there are problems reading a disc, then our counting of the Vobu length is affected and this error can result. It is my understanding that Lucas' title did not have any other media errors that we would associate with the VOBU problem. As such, we made the statement that this is an authoring issue.

We do know that this error can cause playability problems so we treat it as something the replicator should reject and send back to the author.

I think the best test is to perform the Eclipse analysis directly on the image after it is created. If the VOBU length error is present at that point, it is safe to conclude that there are no media problems to blame.

Best regards,

-Ed Younger
Eclipse Data Technologies





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Michael SacciRe: UPDATE!!!! VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 19, 2008 at 12:11:37 am

I'm going to chime in as an author only guy. To me it is not helpful to state this as an "authoring" problem, when I hear that I'm under the impression that I did something wrong or that I can at least do something different. If a master is rejected with this error, what is the author suppose to do, just make another master and hope is formats correctly? Once the blame game settles what is the solution to the problem.



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Lucas FazzaryRe: UPDATE!!!! VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 19, 2008 at 12:25:33 am

I want to apologize to everyone. It was not my intention to get into a "pissing match" as it was called. I have stated in the previous posts that in the instances that this has happened to me the way to fix was to reject the master and have author re-output the image. This does not mean that the author did anything wrong. It means that something in the authoring software, or (as I have found out) in the media has gone wrong.

Unfortunately there are two main variables that can cause this error so it is difficult to determine the exact cause because you can't have one without the other. For instance if I tell a client they need to re-output the image they still need to get the image to me. So they have to use a new medium to transport it. So how could you ever tell what the issue is unless like Ed said to run Image Analysis on it before placing it on your medium of choice. this option is available to VERY few people. Luckily I have this capability and use it every time.

Once again I apologize to everyone and especially to Ed at Eclipse for having to get involved.

Thanks,

Lucas J.



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Trai ForresterRe: UPDATE!!!! VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 19, 2008 at 11:06:22 am

Alright, Alexander, here's the short version,

Lucas is wrong on all counts.

I was first correct that Alan's VOBU Length and number of sectors disagree error was most likely due to a problem reading the Image, and not a DVD Studio Pro problem. In fact, Alan's Image was cut off at the 2 gig mark, with the settings he finally said he used in Toast. Definitely hard to read an Image that's partly not there, wouldn't you say? :-) DVD Studio Pro did not cause Alan's issue.

You nailed it Alexander (you know, I am hiring :-).

FACT: This 'VOBU Length and number of sectors disagree' error has never been proved to be an authoring system issue with DVD Studio Pro or any other authoring system on any single image. Not one.

Even the few I've been involved in helping clients with over the years, I can't say for sure if it was the changes we made, or some momentary or permanent improvement in the client's computer I/O or other unknown parameter allowed all the sectors to finally get where they were supposed to be placed by the authoring system. I've heard of folks on the lists saying they thought this error was caused by assets that were not linked to, and once they removed them the error went away. But what else could it have been? More details were needed. But I do know you can do a simple copy of a file from one hard drive to another, or over the network and something can wrong where sectors end up missing. What if these examples of folks, including me, "doing something" is really more to do with it being time to replace the old system hard drive on the Authoring computer? I always use checksums when moving my clients' Images around - and just retired an older Firewire drive that began to fail these compares.

FACT: There have been probably tens of thousands of cases of this error documented due to have been caused by Image submission on DVD-R. I've got a bunch of these documented instances, myself.

Apple has been inundated with these VOBU Length errors at their tech support center over the last couple of years, and they will tell you it's not their issue. They blame it on the Image "Carrier". I just so happen to have arrived at the same conclusion independently myself, several years ago: DVD Studio Pro does not output Images with this error. I've never seen it on any of the hundreds of DLT submissions I've been involved with. My clients submit Images to me strictly on hard drive, from every conceivable configuration . And you know me, if there was a problem with Apple's output, I'd be all over it.

Sad part of it is, most replicators are staring right at the results, and don't know what they're looking at. You should know the true failure rate of DVD-R submissions at replication facilities.

There's a real slaughter going on out there on this issue, but don't blame DVD Studio Pro for it.

Take care,

Trai

--
Trai Forrester
TFDVD Research Labs
DVDVerification.com





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Lucas FazzaryRe: UPDATE!!!! VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 19, 2008 at 1:25:17 pm

Trai, Trai, Trai, just because you say "Fact" does not make it a fact. Plese read the response from Ed about 100 more times. I am not making this stuff up, FOR ME the way to correct this error every time was to have the image re-output and resubmitted.

With this last case of mine the client submitted the same DDP files, that I initially rejected, via FTP and another DVD-R and got the same error in the same place on the disc, on 3 masters, using the same DDP files. The new image that arrived with the output to a new folder passes green. So what you are saying is the 2 DVD-R's had a dropped sector in the same location that the FTP transmission dropped a sector?

This may have been Alan's case but has never been the case with any of my master submissions. I am sorry we disagree about this, but you need to tone down your attitude a little bit. There are far worse things in the world right now to worry about. So you don't have to make it your life's work to try and prove me wrong every time I post something on the Cow. Anyone can go back and look at the posts I have submitted and your name pop's right up in total disagreement.

If I have not helped anyone with this matter or any other matter on the cow go ahead and let me know. lukefazzary(at)gmail.com. You can all go back to having one opinion on replication issues from Trai, which will end up costing you in the end, even with his discounts.

Lucas Out.



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Bryan EdwardsRe: UPDATE!!!! VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Feb 3, 2011 at 8:17:55 pm

Okay you seem to be the man on this VOBU/sector disagreement. I've read through the thread and there seems to be no direct answer, and several different thoughts on this. If you don't mind, let me give my scenario and see if you can help me, thank you!

I'm using DVDSP version 4.2.1 I created a dual-layer NTSC master and output it to DLTs, with no issue. I then created a PAL master and output it to DLTs and got the VOBU/Sector error report form our European replicators. I then output the master to a DDP 2.0 format on a hard drive, and sent it via FTP to our replicator. Same error came back even though I had done md5 checksums on the DDP. I have had several issues with the PAL masters being rejected by the replicator because of this error, and none from the NTSC masters.

Sooo....what the hell is going on with my PAL mastes?! Please help, thank you!

--Bryan


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Alexander KallasRe: UPDATE!!!! VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 21, 2008 at 11:52:54 am

So would submitting on a USB card exclude media errors?
So far no one on this thread has discussed this.

Cheers
Alexander


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Trai ForresterRe: UPDATE!!!! VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 21, 2008 at 9:10:20 pm

Hi Alexander,

Well, I've never submitted an Image on hard drive to a replicator. But I have had hundreds of hard drives submitted to me for testing with Eclipse, and transfer to DLT - 100% successful submission to manufacturing plants over 6 years, - with not one VOBU Length and number of Sector Disagree Error, or any other issue - none. Because, after re reading Ed's statement here for 'the hundredth time', I realize I've been doing things the correct way - testing with Eclipse before/while transferring to the carrier of my choice! :-).

The USB sticks I've received, all have worked well with Eclipse ImageAnalysis, even the Mac formatted ones, as I'm running MacDrive 6 on the Windows machine housing Eclipse. No problems. Your replicator won't be running MacDrive, so you'll need to make sure it's formatted with NTSF (Alex had some good pointers using hard drives for Image submission in another thread).

For sure, DVD Studio Pro will put out much fewer instances of the VOBU Length and number of sector disagrees errors if your replicator accepts hard drives, and doesn't run into issues mounting and reading the device (Though, Windows likes to go search for software to run USB sticks, I've noticed, and seems to eventually find it - i.e. the same software it loaded to run the USB hard drive a few days ago!).

Just as long as you're not using DVD-R, because then, DVD Studio Pro likes to put out tons of VOBU Length and number of sector disagree errors, for some reason :-)

Take care,

Trai

--
Trai Forrester
TFDVD Research Labs
DVDVerification.com



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Alexander KallasRe: UPDATE!!!! VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 22, 2008 at 11:50:03 am

[Trai Forrester] "Just as long as you're not using DVD-R, because then, DVD Studio Pro likes to put out tons of VOBU Length and number of sector disagree errors, for some reason :-)
"


Hang on Trai,
DVDSP writes DDP to HD, NOT to DVD-R, that is being done in a burning app. like Toast.
Your above conclusion does not follow the workflow.



Cheers
Alexander


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Trai ForresterRe: UPDATE!!!! VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 22, 2008 at 8:23:55 pm

Alexander,

If you put the DDP on DVD-R using Toast, it's still DVD Studio Pro's output, right? But most folks using DVD SP simply submit the playable DVD-R written right out of the authoring system (Lucas, I think said they get 90% of their submissions this way).

Either way, you are at risk of the dreaded VOBU Length and number of sectors disagree error. Makes not a jot of difference how it was formatted - remember, those VOBU's output by DVD Studio Pro are still embedded in the DDP image, and if the replicator has problems reading the DVD-R (playable files or DDP) in their drive, well - you know what can happen.

And you did catch my attempt at humor in the last reply, blaming DVD Studio Pro for this, didn't you? I was joking. It's not a DVD Studio Pro issue (99% of the time we see that VOBU error - or thereabouts, i.e., it's rare for DVD SP to output VOBU errors as has been attributed to it).

I will have more on this, as it's about time I helped correct the misconceptions about this error. I'm gathering some notes, talking to some folks to shore up some of my 'facts', trying to make some time, etc. Minimally, the notes on this error in the EclipseSuite help files need to be updated, and the world's replication engineers running Eclipse (almost all of them are) notified.

Thanks and talk soon,

Trai

--
Trai Forrester
TFDVD Research Labs
DVDVerification.com



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Trai ForresterRe: UPDATE!!!! VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 23, 2008 at 1:26:22 am

Oh, Alexander,

I forgot to correct you in the rush of my last reply.

Thought you'd want to know - DVD Studio Pro does write DDP file sets to DVD-R, and will do so without the risk of truncating your Images (but I'm still on my DLT 'horse' :-). And Eclipse verifies DVD SP DVD-ROM only images containing DDP file sets just fine; unless the host equipment can't read the media, then you'll get 'you know what' :-)

Keep up the good work.

Take care,

Trai

--
Trai Forrester
TFDVD Research Labs
DVDVerification.com





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Alexander KallasRe: UPDATE!!!! VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 23, 2008 at 4:33:18 am

[Trai Forrester] "Thought you'd want to know - DVD Studio Pro does write DDP file sets to DVD-R, and will do so without the risk of truncating your Images ("

Hi Trai,
looks like all the others have gone home and this thread is boring everyone except the Pizza and Cola party set.
A bit of clarification is again required. My DVDSPv3 only offers to burn DDP files to Hard Drive, if I select the burner on the Mac, it does not offer anything, what version are you on/ how do you get to your statement above?
ps will we start a new thread?



Cheers
Alexander


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Trai ForresterRe: UPDATE!!!! VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 23, 2008 at 5:34:22 am

Hi Alexander,

DVD SP 4 introduced the feature.

And ah, the 'Pizza and Cola gang!' Now, that does bring back fond memories.

Thanks and take care,

Trai

--
Trai Forrester
TFDVD Research Labs
DVDVerification.com



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Alexander KallasRe: UPDATE!!!! VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Sep 23, 2008 at 11:19:33 am

[Trai Forrester] "DVD SP 4 introduced the feature.
And ah, the 'Pizza and Cola gang!' Now, that does bring back fond memories.
"


Eureka, we may have cracked this!
The control test would be to write the DVDSP4 generated DDP file
1. to the hard-drive, then to DVD-R via toast in DVD-ROM (UDF)
2. directly to DVD-R
these then could be tested in Eclipse, and if there is a differnce, it will point to the troublesome route.
As I have neither software, this excludes me from performing this definitive test. Trai, it's up to you now to prove that the problem may be that SP4 cannot successfully write DDP to DVD-R.
I'm off for Pizza now.


Cheers
Alexander


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Alexander KallasRe: UPDATE!!!! VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Aug 5, 2009 at 3:00:49 am

[Trai Forrester] "Hi Alexander,
DVD SP 4 introduced the feature.
"


I'm on DVDSP 4.2.1 and that does not offer burning DDP to the drive.
So can you please respond to the test proposed in my last post here
http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/155/871665


Cheers
Alexander


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daniel rucciRe: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Aug 4, 2009 at 10:22:49 pm

Well my friend Michael Mizen referenced this article to me today when I asked him for advice about our problem. Interesting debate going on. I wanted to contribue my data point to see if there was any similarity.

I was producing a DVD from DVDSP with a menu and several tracks for an education client.
- built the menu and compressed the tracks in DVDSP. Pretty standard stuff
- used an external LaCie burner (shows as "TSSTcorp" drive in the burn window) via a LONG firewire 400 run (like max cable length of 14 feet)
- had success burning with this drive for over two years (hundreds if not thousands of discs) but occasionally there are errors that defy logic.

I sent my disc down through the client and they forwarded to their duplicator who uses Synchronicity in Salt Lake City, Utah. Synchronicity ran the disc through the Eclipse verification software and it returned several errors (see log below). I give them credit for requiring client signoff before they do a big duplication run with this kind of error.

Ironically there is no burn-speed selector in DVDSP so I used Toast at 4x. When I re-burned the disc with Toast (DVD-ROM (UDF) of the VIDEO_TS generated by DVDSP) it worked well. There were no errors.

My personal opinion is that this is a finnicky thing, irregular "cosmic ray hits"-type inconsistency to the errors across this conversation. I think DVDSP doesnt do a great job of burning discs. I'd use it to build, but I think once you find a combination of burner and DVD-ROM that work for you, stick with it.

-Daniel Rucci
http://www.danielrucci.com



ECLIPSE DVD Verification Log:
[w] DVD 1 Non-zero reserved bits in main data region code (VIDEO_TS.IFO: RMA=40)
[i] DVD 1 control data & main data region code reserved bits disagree (LI: RMA=00,...
[w] DVD 1 Non-zero reserved bits in main data region code (VIDEO_TS.BUP: RMA=40)
[i] DVD 1 control data & main data region code reserved bits disagree (LI: RMA=00,...
[w] DVD 1 VOBU length & number of sectors disagree (DSI: 262 <> Actual: 291)
[w] DVD 1 VOBU length & number of sectors disagree (DSI: 260 <> Actual: 209)



The following text was also forwarded to me along with the Eclipse report. I do not know who wrote it.

>>VOBU ERRO EXPLANATION
>>The error VOBU basically means that the DVD had files that were unreadable. This is either due to a scratched DVD or if the DVD is good, then it was because the DVD was burned too fast. The correct burn speed for mastering is between 1x and 4x, anything faster could and will result with this error.
>>Playability issues: the DVD will either freeze, or jump frames where the VOBU errors occurred. There are certain cases where because of where the error occurred it wont affect the playability. If there are too many VOBU we are normally advised not to run it. Here is an educated answer that your client can give to their authored party: The calculated length of the VOBU and the length specified in the DSI field disagree.
>>The length of the VOBU is calculated using the address of the Navigational Pack and the length as specified in the DSI field (NV_PCK + VOBU_EA = LENGTH). During the analysis, the EclipseSuite tools read from the beginning of the VOBU until they reach the next NV_PCK, which indicates the end of the current VOBU and the beginning of the next. The EclipseSuite tools keep count of the number of sectors that make up the VOBU. If the number of sectors does not equal to the length specified in the VOBU_EA field then this error occurs.
>>In most cases, this problem has caused playability problems. It is for this reason that it is considered an error.
>>This problem is caused during the authoring process and cannot be corrected in the pre-mastering or mastering. The image must be re-authored properly. Contact the authoring system manufacturer for more information. Type: DVD Rule, Reference: None, Default Program Action: Error, Rule ID: 309




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Alexander KallasRe: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Aug 5, 2009 at 3:21:54 am

[daniel rucci] "Ironically there is no burn-speed selector in DVDSP so I used Toast at 4x. When I re-burned the disc with Toast (DVD-ROM (UDF) of the VIDEO_TS generated by DVDSP) it worked well. There were no errors. "

This discussion was about CSS, nowhere in your post do you mention DDP, you are using the VIDEO-TS folder, not the layer O folder.
You are Duplicating which does not allow CSS encryption. For that you need Replication.
You have a simple burn speed error, and I'll bet you didn't turn off "lossless linking".




Cheers
Alexander


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Michael SacciRe: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Aug 5, 2009 at 6:09:15 am

My guess he is going through replication since there is an eclipse report, just using the wrong term.

Oh how I wish Loseless Linking was off by default!!!!!! There is NO reason to use it and every reason not to use it.



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daniel rucciRe: VOBU length & number of sectors disagree
by on Aug 8, 2009 at 7:10:09 pm

I have to admit that I had heard about the lossless linking issue before but could never link it to why things wouldn't play in burners so I continued to use it.

And yes, I meant replication.

And this discussion was initially about VOBU length disagreement so I thought I would post my story.

I will be unchecking lossless linking in the future to see if that helps and I'll report back.


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