Creative COW SIGN IN :: SPONSORS :: ADVERTISING :: ABOUT US :: CONTACT US :: FAQ
Creative COW's LinkedIn GroupCreative COW's Facebook PageCreative COW on TwitterCreative COW's Google+ PageCreative COW on YouTube
APPLE DVD STUDIO:HomeDVD Studio ForumDVD Studio TutorialsFinal Cut Studio

Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise

COW Forums : Apple DVD Studio Pro

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Share on Facebook
Mark SuszkoHuge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 28, 2008 at 3:27:20 pm

And here I thought it was going so well...

Authored my first interactive project in DVDSP and the clients loved it and approved it and I made a trunkload of dubs and after getting the approvals and sign-offs, sying they had tested and approved the entire thing, I nuked all the project files and asset files from the mac, both in FCP and DVDSP. All gone to make room for another project.

All I have left are the dvd's I burned, and the original assets/master elements that made up the project on DVCProtape.

The flaw on the master DVD is that one interactive menu connection goes to a wrong branch, so that entire branch of the interactive training is on the disk but cut off from access.

I guess what I want to hear is there is a simple way to import the finished but flawed disk into DVDSP and repair/remake the connections between menus and footage.
Worst case as I understand it, I'll have to reimport all the pre-edited master segments into FCP, then export them into m2v files, import them into DVDSP and re-create the entire interactive project from there. I estimate that's 12-16 hours of work.


Please, please, please, give me something to go on, I have to turn the repaired and redubbed disks in the next 24-48 hours.

I have mpeg streamclip on the authoring mac, but have never used it yet. But something tels me that might be changing...





Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

eric pautschRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 28, 2008 at 3:34:13 pm

Ouch!

So, next time, will you save all your project files? :)

You'll have to start the project over from scratch if you have the assets. If your comfortable with the DVD Spec, you could use AfterEdit to make that change. But I wouldn'y suggest that unless you really know the inner workings of DVD



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Mark SuszkoRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 28, 2008 at 3:57:39 pm

Well, it certainly is a learning experience:-P I should have known that new clients may not believe you when you say "after this point, it's gone, no more changes possible".


They need it fixed and dubbed by morning. I think I'm going to have to break the sacred vow and break out the (for emergencies only) jolt cola and do it up from (almost) scratch, because it sounds like I'll spend too much time figuring out the ripping/ demuxing versus just doing what I already know how to do and just fixing the one bad link. It's more work, but at least I know how to do that part of it now. There's just no time to do a lot of trial and error experimenting.

I have the option to just make them a separate disk with the "missing" exercise and interactivity on it. That's one fifth as much work as re-doing the whole disk, they'd just have to hand out a 2-disk set tomorrow and explain that their video guy messed up. I think I'd rather pull an all-nighter than have to live with that. Either way I've gotta make another 190 dubs, I think the only honorable and correct thing is to make the whole thing over. But I was hoping for a usable shortcut I could apply to this.

So, how do you go about archiving off the project files when you finish your authoring projects? For next time, I mean.

I HATE Mondays.



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


eric pautschRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 28, 2008 at 4:02:58 pm

If your sure you have ALL the assets, I would just re-do the job over. Archiving is easy since your project will fit onto a DVD-5 or DVD-9. Just bundle all your assets and Project onto a firewire or write them as data to a disc.



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Michael SacciRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 29, 2008 at 12:20:59 am

[Mark Suszko] "So, how do you go about archiving off the project files when you finish your authoring projects? For next time, I mean. "

First step in archiving a project it keeping it well orginized throughout the process. All the assets (video, audio, menus, overlays and the like are all in a project folder.) Now if you make the m2vs and ac3 before going into DVDSP your project archive will be no bigger that the DVD type you are authoring to. DVD-5 to a DVD-r or a DVD-9 to a DL disc. The only thing I never archive is the Video TS of the build process, easy and quick to make that again. Archiving is a good reason for not encoding within DVDSP, but if you don't you have to keep all the ref movies for video tracks and menus.

NEVER throw away for files! (CRAP, philly scored) Especially on a complicated project. Rule of thumb if you throw it out they will need it redone within 48 hours of deletion. Back it up once and that will fail, back it up twice and you are probably safe, back it up 4x and nobody will ever need anything from that project ever again.

Make sure you proof the new project. Hope it works our for you.





Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Trai ForresterRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 29, 2008 at 2:22:19 am

Goodness - this is almost easy, Mark;

1) Purchase DVDAfterEdit Standard Edition.

2) Load your Project's VIDEO_TS folder into DVDAfterEdit and chose to copy all commands. Open up a text editor and paste your project's commands in there.

3) Send the text file to me. I'll change the programming so your button goes to the right place, and then send the adjusted text file to you where you'll paste it in back in DVDAfterEdit. Done.

Of course, we'll need to talk so I'll know what to change. This is a straight forward process, which I've done for good authors many times on several continents (well, some of these 'authoring from a distance' jobs took several days, as they were quite extensive 'start from scratch' affairs).

Fees are negotiable (one arm and leg, or just one leg and an arm :-)

Let me know, if you'd like,

Trai

-
Trai Forrester
TFDVD Research Labs
DVDVerification.com
Entering 10 years, of full-time support of DVD Production Studios, worldwide




Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Lucas FazzaryRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 29, 2008 at 12:17:30 pm

"They need it fixed and dubbed by morning. I think I'm going to have to break the sacred vow and break out the (for emergencies only) jolt cola and do it up from (almost) scratch, because it sounds like I'll spend too much time figuring out the ripping/ demuxing versus just doing what I already know how to do and just fixing the one bad link. It's more work, but at least I know how to do that part of it now. There's just no time to do a lot of trial and error experimenting. "

Wow so maybe we should have more discussions on Re-authoring DVD's. And I don't mean "Ripping" I mean lets get some tutorials on how to fix problems like these. I hate to see someone have to spend all night for something that could be done in an hour.



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Mark SuszkoRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 29, 2008 at 1:31:20 pm

I'll be looking for the tipzzzzz...

*

Just now started burning the final dub master, simulation of all branches and links *seems* all right, but I told the client if he wants 200 by 11:00, he's taking a chance because after 26 hours in a row, its like bomb defusing when you can't even COUNT the wires any more, much less tell the red from the green....ZZZ


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

eric pautschRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 29, 2008 at 4:56:41 pm

Hi Lucas

I suggest you download the trial version of After Edit and go through the vast list of tutorials and forum questions if your interested in this. Like Trai indicated, this issue can be fixed in a matter of minutes once you understand AE and how DVDSP codes it's discs.



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Lucas FazzaryRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 29, 2008 at 6:26:36 pm

Been through DVDAE many times. I understand it very well. I'm just saying that there are other tools out there that can do what Mark needed for free and easily and as quickly.

-Luke








Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

eric pautschRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 29, 2008 at 6:36:21 pm

Sure...but not sure how much testing they have in the real world. I believe AfterEdit is the only tool like this that has been spec tested...Trai would be able to confirm this.





Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Lucas FazzaryRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 29, 2008 at 7:34:04 pm

I've been work with the entire Eclipse premastering software suite for years at a CD/DVD replicator and I can tell you that most of these programs are spec compliant. Not to knock DVDAE but we have had issues with the masters it has created in the past. Of course we have had issues with masters created in Scenarist as well, which is supposed to be a spec tool. If you told me what your DVD was authored in I can tell you right off the bat what warnings and errors will arise in an Eclipse analysis as well what you need to do to correct.

Luckily for me when (or I should say if) I have free time I do test masters I create in different DVD authoring programs and re-authoring tools and analyze them in Eclipse. To take it one step further I have glass masters made for some and have test pressings made to do further testing.

Not only that I do DVD Authoring/Compression here as well. So every DVD I author I have the tools available to test whether it does in fact meet the DVD Spec.

Basically what I am saying is I have tested these tools and some will work fine and some wont. I just like to save people time and money as well as learn a little something in the process.

-Luke




Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Eric PautschRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 29, 2008 at 7:44:39 pm

I would LOVE it if you could do that and post your findings. Could you possibly discuss the issues with AfterEdit your talking about specifically? I know it's not perfect but its all I use for this kind of work and would like to have as much info as possible.



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Lucas FazzaryRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 29, 2008 at 8:21:21 pm

Sure. Heres one example from an email I sent to our client.

"On one of our set top DVD players and in Power DVD for PC would not display the sub picture on one of the menus. On the “Slow-motion” menu after you choose “loop” I was unable to see the highlights for any of the buttons. After doing some research into the disc we did find a discrepancy on that menu. Unfortunately I am unsure what exactly is causing this to happen. Every other DVD player I tried it on would display the sub picture highlights correctly. It looks like they used DVD After Edit for the authoring of this DVD."

Now this could have been human error in the re-author process however we could find no difference in that master and another supplied by the same customer in the DVDAE demo. I had the client re-author the DVD using DVDAE again and there was no problem on the resubmitted master.

As far as issues with Eclipse, I would have to go through some logs. We have one client that uses DVDAE all the time so it shouldn't be difficult to find.

I have only ever rejected two masters that used DVDAE. The one mentioned above is one. Most of the DVDAE warnings I see DO NOT affect playability. There are some "rubbery" rules in the DVD spec that do not cause playability issues but do generate error within Eclipse. We work very closely with Eclipse Data to ensure that we pass and reject masters correctly.

-Luke





Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Michael SacciRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 29, 2008 at 9:08:33 pm

Luke, can you list these other programs that can fix DVD from an authoring level.



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Mark SuszkoRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 29, 2008 at 10:57:23 pm

Epilogue:

The last of 200 fixed and finished disks went into a tyvek sleeve, still warm from the laser burn, at 11:28 this morning, client arrived a minute later. Took 14 hours to rebuild from the pre-edited tape elements. One thing I like about DVDSP is that graphical interface for looking at the links. That really helped me a lot, the bulk of time was just typing in names for the imported assets and menus and assigning the buttons. Connecting the end jumps took only about 45 minutes, but only because I could SEE where they were going visually. Had I just had the text lists to go by, I'd never have made it.

It did help a lot that I used a consistent system for naming everything, so BG Q1 menu obviously has to connect to BG Q1 answer A, BG Q1 Answer B, BG Q1 answer C, BG Q1 Answer D, BG Q1 summary and Intro to BG Q2, and so forth. This is definitely a job that requires organizational skills, so that's a challenge for me:-)

When I get a couple day's rest, I'll start gathering info on the best practices to archive off the project files and assets, as well as more detail on mpeg streamclip. I had it available, but, groggy as I was, I did not find it at all intuitive as to how to use it. I'm just not a gambler, I had a known method I was comfortable with that took a long time, and an unknown quantity in streamclip I didn't have spare time to goof around and make a few mistakes with, so I played the percentages and did it the way I knew how. Well it was quite the learning experience for my first time, now I have a whole list of things I know how to do, and things I need to find better ways of doing. Next project will be tons better, I know. When I get back from vacation I'll have to make some time to explore options and methods without a deadline gun to my head.

Thanks all for the suggestions and advice. I'll have to come back here and read the tips more often.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Michael SacciRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 30, 2008 at 5:59:50 am

[Mark Suszko] "One thing I like about DVDSP is that graphical interface for looking at the links."

Hopefully you have gotten some sleep. But when you wake up take a look at the connections tab set to advanced. It is a little overwhelming at first but once you get use to it you can fly through complex navigation, especially if you are in the habit of naming everything like you seem to be done it can be a great way to proof your disc without playing it.

Glad you got it worked out.




Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Trai ForresterRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 30, 2008 at 8:00:23 am

Admin Note: We have removed this post's content due to policy violations with personal attacks, insults and other remarks that go against Creative COW policy. Continued violations will cause removal of the user's account.

The Creative COW Team


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Trai ForresterRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 30, 2008 at 8:00:09 am

Sorry Lucas, but your whole reply above is quite extraordinary.

First of all, the EclipseSuite does not verify the DVD-Video file structure of the disc, and thus does not verify the DVD. You are way off there. You need to add on MEI DVD-Video Verifier (very expensive) to verify the build folder - more on this in a minute.

The EclipseSuite of tools is crucial, no doubt; I've been licensed with them since September 2002, and use them everyday. But these tools make sure that what's presented to you as a replicator, i.e., the DVD Image, and that it can be mastered. Only a very few checks of the contents of the build folder (DVD-Video file structure in the VIDEO-TS folder) are included that pertain to mastering the Image; things like proper placement and flagging of layer break cell (which I and my partner working on DVDAfterEdit got Eclipse to implement during 2003/2004), making sure the DSI (data search information) has the correct number of sectors listed as are actually on the disc (more to it than that), and just a very few others.

But the subject here is build folder editors and I'm here to tell you don't know anything about a DVD or what a build folder editor has done to it, until you verify it with the MEI DVD-Video Verifier. MEI is what the DVD Forum's Verification Labs in Japan use. It's the program Warner Brothers says must be run by all third party studios on the discs produced for them. It's the program we used to develop DVDAfterEdit.

Thousands of errors that can affect playback and create all sorts of havoc will sail through an Eclipse Image Analysis test and pass, but will be nailed for fixing by MEI.

So when you say: "I've been work with the entire Eclipse premastering software suite for years at a CD/DVD replicator and I can tell you that most of these programs are spec compliant.", means you really haven't tested these 'free programs' or DVDAfterEdit, or any DVD for spec compliance after all!

Don't worry, replicators aren't verifiers, I know. That's not your job. And you're to be commended for your posting and participating here (the rest of your post above is pretty much puff, and didn't really happen though, right?)

Take care,

Trai Forrester
TFDVD Research Labs
DVDVerification.com





Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Trai ForresterRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 30, 2008 at 7:59:44 am

Sorry Lucas, but your whole reply above of three sentences had three errors (baseball analogies, anyone? :-).

You were incorrect twice when you said: "I'm just saying that there are other tools out there that can do what Mark needed for free and easily and as quickly"

First of all, no other tool can perform the workflow I described to help Mark, and second; good Mark, with all respect (except he's going on vacation :-) is not capable, at this time, of performing the fix; as Eric said, you have to know the DVD Specification level of authoring, and almost as daunting - you would need to know how to work within DVD Studio Pro's abstraction layer to make the command changes.

DVDAfterEdit is the only tool that let's you extract a DVDs domain structure, PGCs and commands and paste them into a text file and edit them for pasting back in. You can even create new VTS's VTSM's, PGCs, commands, etc. in a text editor, and paste them into a project you've set up (or have had set up across the country) to match. And like I said, this can be done by email.

Now, brand newbies can paste in the command changes to their projects, no problem. But again, your assertion that Mark could somehow get some free programs to make the fix for his project is stretching it to say the least.

You also said in your reply: "Been through DVDAE many times. I understand it very well."

However, I believe you may not really be familiar with all the capability DVDAfterEdit has, according to your reply of a year ago in this thread: "Wow I did not realize they have a Mastering Edition", as a year is hardly enough time for a busy person like yourself to begin to really know the program.

And in the above linked thread you also state, as the reason you didn't know DVDAfterEdit had a Mastering Edition (after more than 3 years of it having it) was, quote: "Last I used DVD After Edit was version 1.0" - Sorry, incorrect again, there never was a DVDAfterEdit 1.0 or even a DVDAfterEdit 2.0. Now, there were versions of the program named TFDVDEdit 1.0 and TFDVDEdit 2.0 and TFDVDEdit 3.0 (the current DVDAfterEdit), but TFDVDEdit 1.0 was only available exclusively to TFDVD.com members, and never for general sale; and I just checked and you were not a member of my site those 5 years.

Basically, I guess I'm saying that you may not be the best person to be giving advice about this build folder editing kinda stuff?.. especially, as I also see in another reply of yours in this thread down there, how you think that the EclipseSuite software somehow is a verifier for DVD Spec compliance for DVDs (Yikes! This is a crucial blunder; I'll be down there to correct things, momentarily).

For sure, I wouldn't worry about Cow members considering purchasing tools for their trade; they're mostly professionals around here, and are used to these types of decisions, periodically.

Trai Forrester
TFDVD Research Labs
DVDVerification.com

Note: Divested of all 50% interest in DVDAfterEdit in November of 2005.














Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Lucas FazzaryRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 30, 2008 at 12:11:15 pm

Looks like I ruffled some feathers. you are too funny Trai.
That error I described was caused from DVDAE. Your old product is not perfect and neither am I or you. There are other tools out there that do *MOST* of what DVDAE can do. Not all but *MOST*. they may not use the same work flow as your old precious program but the same tasks, especially as easy as changing a button link can be done with other programs (list was too long) with a million different workflows. For you to say that this cannot be done in any other program is ludicrous.

Yeah a year ago I didn't know there was a mastering edition. big deal. I dont check your (old) site every day.

Third of all if Eclipse doesn't check a DVD for DVD spec compliance then I think we (you and me) deserve a refund.

I do run tests and check every link on a DLT, DVD-R, DDP. It's called Eclipse ImageMapper. you should invest in it. Then our QA department 100% every DVD that comes through our facility. Also I think even Leo or any of the other guys at Eclipse will tell you that DVD-R and DVD-DL are perfectly fine to premaster with versions 5 and up. WE have NEVER let me repeat NEVER had Replicates return because a DVD was submitted on a DVD-R. NEVER. NEVER. NEVER. I'm sick of hearing people say it has to be on DLT or DDP on hard drive. DLT drives will soon be sitting next to Exabyte drive very soon.

Now I will make one main point. If you want to make a DVD that is going to a Replicator use a PROFESSIONAL APPlication instead of a prosumer app that you must (well actually you dont really HAVE to) go in and remove the abstraction layer. Whats one second of wait time when loading a DVD. Hell DVDSP DVDs start up faster then DVD's I have authored in Scenarist and Creator.

I'm not even going to go back and read your 3 comments and respond to anything else. All I wanted to do was help a brother out (for Free). I am good at what I do and I dont need the MEI Verifier to tell me what is wrong with a DVD. BTW does anyone even use it anymore besides you? I have done work for New Line, Starz, Warner, and Fox and none of them have required it to be tested with MEI. Also I dont think Deluxe even uses it anymore.

-Good day

I AM NOT RESPONDING TO THIS THREAD ANYMORE.



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


eric pautschRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 30, 2008 at 5:24:35 pm

Trai

There are several tools to do what Mark needs and most of them are free. PGCEdit for starters. Its a great tool but I would like to see what errors pop up after editing a title. AfterEdit is far by the most feature packed though (thanks to you!)

Since your the man with the tools and expertise why not start testing some of these tools and post your findings on doom (when time permits of course).


http://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?f=50

E



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Trai ForresterRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 30, 2008 at 7:02:06 pm

Sorry, Luke, but your misrepresentation of what I said does both of us an injustice: I said no other tool has text authoring capability and could have helped Mark out in a timely fashion like the workflow I proposed.

And again (maybe it will stick?), none of these tools will help you out immediately with the needed knowledge of the DVD Specifications and DVD Studio Pro's abstraction layer auto-programming. You show you're not familiar with this, because it's not just changing a button link' as you say.

There are no direct 'button links' to target in DVD Studio Pro's abstraction layer scheme for Menus - All button commands link to the 'tail' of the PGC. You have to change several commands in a few different domains to implement a 'simple' fix as what Mark's project needed. And often, on other types of 'simple' fixes, it's sometimes expedient to create another dummy PGC or two or three 'outside' the abstraction layer to do what you need to do, and then to jump back into the 'command flow' at the appropriate points. But for that, again, you've got to know DVD SP's abstraction layer routing pretty well.

As a matter of fact, there are very few people in the world that could have made the fix for Mark within hours. And again, they would have to have DVDAfterEdit's Text authoring capability to help him 'from a distance' - like I said.

Now, of course, it didn't seem you were interested in getting Mark the timely help he needed, but more to take this thread in another direction - back to the time-worn 'free' is better mantra - or even 'just as good', which is not usually the case as most professionals know.

And yes, it's true I'm afraid, Eclipse, as good as it is, doesn't check for DVD for spec compliance. The MEI DVD-Video Verifier does that. Eclipse (worth it's weight for the crucial tasks it performs) verifies if the Image presented is configured properly for your mastering equipment, and that the Image follows certain file system specifications - but again (and again) does not check the DVD for DVD-Video spec compliance.

Here's Eclipse's website discussing the issue and you won't find a mention of the DVD-Video specifications. Oh, and btw, did you see Leo's picture on my website (a third of the way down on that page (they took that picture especially for me)? I've been working directly with Eclipse for many years, so it's not a knock on them to state the obvious; they'll tell you Eclipse doesn't check for 'Spec' compliance. Sorry to bust your bubble on this (and yes, Imagemapper is cool, but it doesn't work with CSS flagged DDP file sets).

Another error in your statements concerning what I said, was when you said:

'WE have NEVER let me repeat NEVER had Replicates return because a DVD was submitted on a DVD-R. NEVER. NEVER. NEVER'.

In my reply, I was clearly referring to the percentage of DVD-R Image submissions by your clients that you've had to reject (kick back) due to readability issues; Whether you knew the DVD-R having problems being read by your drive was causing the Eclipse errors, or not. I was not referring to replicas at all, like you say (i carumba! I'm almost through this reply, I hope I can make it :-)

There is a percentage of Images on disc, playable DVDs or DDP file sets, that can't be read by the replicators optical drive (please see the NIST DVD compatibility studies on page two of my 'Why Verify the DVD?' article). Sometimes the DVD-R's unreadability manifests itself in various random Eclipse Image Analysis errors, which many replicators mistake for something being wrong with the Image, when it's really a problem reading the DVD-R. That's what I'm referring to.

Lot's of time can be lost with DVD-R submission of images - I hope you're briefing customers on this possibility.

Now, about the MEI DVD-Video Verifier testing. It's just industry standard, that's all. The various large enterprises you mention as 'not requiring an MEI test from you' wouldn't think of asking you to test with MEI. They know you don't do that kind of thing, for one, and also; the MEI testing is done at an earlier stage of the production process; well before the Image gets to you. And, as of course, MEI doesn't leave any 'telltale' signs on the final image, there is no way you could know if the test had been run on those images submitted to you.

For sure, the MEI Verifier is but one tool in the verifiers arsenal; another crucial capability is the ability and experience to perform the DVD project "Emulation Step-through", which 'traces' a projects routing and GPRM, SPRM values. I would use this procedure to find your authoring mistakes in Scenarist and Creator that's resulting in slower starting discs for you than DVD Studio Pro DVDs. MEI testing wouldn't help us here.

But to settle the most important matters raised in this thread, I think I may contact Evatone, and see if they are willing to stand behind your claims that you verify all the DVD's sent into the company for DVD specification compliance.

Trai Forrester
TFDVD Research Labs
DVDVerification.com






Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Eric PautschRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 30, 2008 at 7:15:17 pm

Wow...what a way to ruin a perfectly good thread.



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Lucas FazzaryRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 30, 2008 at 7:48:10 pm

I'm really done this time I promise Eric. BTW do you still have the same email adress I would like to send you my tests and finding.



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Eric PautschRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 30, 2008 at 8:17:24 pm

Yes



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Trai ForresterRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 30, 2008 at 9:06:50 pm

Eric,

Note: if those Eclipse reports do not identify DVDAfterEdit in the "Implementation ID" under the UDF section in the "INFO", then they're worthless.

I can send you some random Eclipse reports with errors on them as well; for instance.

If anyone wants to see some examples of what can happen to DVDAfterEdit Images at the manufacturing plant, just do a search on "Eclipse" over at DVDAfterEdit.com, for goodness sakes.

Take care,

Trai Forrester
TFDVD Research Labs
DVDVerification.com






Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Lucas FazzaryRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 30, 2008 at 7:46:56 pm

"There are no direct 'button links' to target in DVD Studio Pro's abstraction layer scheme for Menus - All button commands link to the 'tail' of the PGC. You have to change several commands in a few different domains to implement a 'simple' fix as what Mark's project needed. And often, on other types of 'simple' fixes, it's sometimes expedient to create another dummy PGC or two or three 'outside' the abstraction layer to do what you need to do, and then to jump back into the 'command flow' at the appropriate points. But for that, again, you've got to know DVD SP's abstraction layer routing pretty well."

I have authored hundreds of complicated DVD's with Scenarist. I think understand the "link to tail pgc" and sending that to a dummy PGC. This does not have to be so though. DVDSP does this but as long as your target is within the same VTS there is no need to. Since DVDSP automatically creates a VTS for every "Track" you add it has to link to tail PGC then to a dummy.

"As a matter of fact, there are very few people in the world that could have made the fix for Mark within hours."

Well I guess I'm one of those few people. I do these fixes at least once a week without DVDAE. Including correcting layerbreak issues. All done within an hour.


"and yes, Imagemapper is cool, but it doesn't work with CSS flagged DDP file sets"

Actually it does.

"In my reply, I was clearly referring to the percentage of DVD-R Image submissions by your clients that you've had to reject (kick back) due to readability issues; Whether you knew the DVD-R having problems being read by your drive was causing the Eclipse errors, or not. I was not referring to replicas at all, like you say (i carumba! I'm almost through this reply, I hope I can make it :-) "

Yes we have kicked back masters for a scratch on the DVD-R. No biggie we tell the client to reburn a new master and don't kick it around. As long as we are using Eclipse approved drives this is not a problem.

"he MEI testing is done at an earlier stage of the production process; well before the Image gets to you."

Umm I authored these discs. They would use the MEI before I encode their video and author the discs?


"For sure, the MEI Verifier is but one tool in the verifiers arsenal; another crucial capability is the ability and experience to perform the DVD project "Emulation Step-through", which 'traces' a projects routing and GPRM, SPRM values. I would use this procedure to find your authoring mistakes in Scenarist and Creator that's resulting in slower starting discs for you than DVD Studio Pro DVDs. MEI testing wouldn't help us here."

Set the first play to a one VTS title in Scenarist and 1 track in DVDSP. DVDSP will almost always start first. Many programs trace GPRM's and SPRM's and emulate as well. PGCedit, DVD Remake Pro, etc..


"But to settle the most important matters raised in this thread, I think I may contact Evatone, and see if they are willing to stand behind your claims that you verify all the DVD's sent into the company for DVD specification compliance."

Oh no!!! Don't tell on me. I am not here selling a service to creative cow members. I have not claimed that my company stands behind what I say on here. I do not state my companies name in my threads because I am not on here representing them. I am here to help people. I have gone through a lot of these issues myself and have found good practices that work and work well. So I have no problem with you calling my company but you will most likely end with them telling you I am not a representative of the company. Should I have a disclaimer?

Trai I am not here to get in a pissing match with you. You know about the DVD spec than many many people do(and I think thats why you keep mentioning that I dont know the DVD Spec). there is no doubt in my mind. I first just tried telling this guy that he doesn't have to buy software or pay you to do something this easy and quick.

-Luke

Disclaimer: The views expressed in this post are the views of ME and have no representaion of Evatone, Inc or it's affiliates.









Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Trai ForresterRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Apr 30, 2008 at 8:55:03 pm

Ok, Luke,

As long as you're saying that your company doesn't verify all the DVDs for spec compliance and even 'usability', playability, or other such time consuming things undertaken during the course of 'verification', on every DVD sent into to Evatone for mastering, as no replicator does, Or, at least that you don't speak for your company in regards to these kinds of things, which you've said; then I'm good.

Now, that is interesting that you say you're directly starting with the first Title in Scenarist and DVD SP, and Scenarist is slower. I wonder if it has to do with Scenarists sub par UDF file structure compliance?

Trai Forrester
TFDVD Research Labs
DVDVerification.com



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Lucas FazzaryRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on May 2, 2008 at 8:41:20 pm

I will be starting a new thread by Monday addressing DVD Spec Verification (Parts 1, 2, and 3) as well as my entire process. Trai I would also like your input as well. It seems there are threads scattered around the board touching on the premastering/replication process. I'd like to get it all in one.

I think this will be useful to others as they submit images and masters for replication of both CD and DVD. I will explain my entire process of premastering which will let some of the cow users understand what happens when their master goes to a replication facility (or at least my job). Then when some users have issues with their replicator they can ask if they perform some of these checks.







Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Eric PautschRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on May 2, 2008 at 9:25:02 pm

I would be delighted to here this info. It's the only part of DVD production I wish I knew more about. Specially like to understand more about these "rubbery" errors you guys were mentioning. More over, it'd be nice here about specific errors attributed to a particular authoring tool (Scenarist, DVD Studio Pro, DVD Lab, ect)

I've authored hundreds of replicated titles - most pre-mastered with AfterEdit and have only had a problem once (due to an error on my part & which Trai helped greatly on). So I guess my question would be: Assuming the authoring is correct, how often does a job get "blown" on the replicators side of things and what are the best ways to make sure everything goes smoothly once I had over those DDP images?

E



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Mark SuszkoRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on May 2, 2008 at 10:11:20 pm

I'm just glad you boys decided to stop using my thread for your fight club:-)

I think it would be a great and useful thing if you partnered-up to write a detailed piece for us here on the COW on the behind-the-scenes technical issues regarding replicating and verifying for commercial use. It really is a mystery to lots of us folks who make a program or want to release a film for distribution, and we send out files off thru some mysterious doorway not knowing what's really happening or why. If it saves one person from spoiling a huge replication run, it would be worth it. Just be sure to break out an "executive summary" version for us less-informed folks so we can keep up with which apps you're using for what purposes.
Simple issues like does it still have to be on DLT or will they take a DVD-R still make a big difference to many people.

Not to mention all this other software you referred to I've never heard of. Fascinating stuff, but we need a layman's introduction, please.



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

M. Oliver WatsonRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Feb 1, 2009 at 6:51:51 am

Mark,

I hope this isn't too basic of a question for your thread, but I was wondering if you could help me understand the process of authoring a "master" DVD vs. a regular DVD. I'm using the latest version of DVDSP, if that matters. I searched other threads on this topic, but couldn't find any. So, any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

M. Oliver Watson


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


M. Oliver WatsonRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Feb 1, 2009 at 6:59:26 am

Mark,

I hope this isn't too basic of a question for your thread, but I was wondering if you could help me understand the process of authoring a "master" DVD vs. a regular DVD. I'm using the latest version of DVDSP, if that matters. I searched other threads on this topic, but couldn't find any. So, any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

M. Oliver Watson


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

eric pautschRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Feb 1, 2009 at 8:13:19 am

There really isn't a difference between a "master" DVD vs. a regular DVD. What were talking about is getting the correct files to a replicator which creates a "glass master" or "father stamper" which is used to create a number of discs which are sent out to be sold.



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

M. Oliver WatsonRe: Huge emergency-re-author problem, please advise
by on Feb 1, 2009 at 9:28:04 pm

So, basically I just need to make a normal DVD and whoever duplicates it will take it from there. I thought that's how it was, but I guess I got caught up in the depth of knowledge of the contributors in this thread. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the COW for making all of this knowledge available. In the end it really doesn't matter who's right or wrong just that we all learned, and learned I have. Thanks a million guys!!

M. Oliver Watson


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Share on Facebook


FORUMSTUTORIALSFEATURESVIDEOSPODCASTSEVENTSSERVICESNEWSLETTERNEWSBLOGS

Creative COW LinkedIn Group Creative COW Facebook Page Creative COW on Twitter
© 2014 CreativeCOW.net All rights are reserved. - Privacy Policy

[Top]