button highlights AND subtitles in ONE track?
by Christian
on
Mar 12, 2007 at 6:30:06 pm
I've added a button, to a video track, using the marker based button highlight function. I've clicked "force display" as the graphic (button) itself, is embedded in the video stream. Now I also want to add subtitles to the same track - Is that possible to have both in one track?
Re: button highlights AND subtitles in ONE track? by Trai Forrester on Mar 13, 2007 at 2:25:06 am
Oh, one thing I didn't mention in my last reply, Eric,
The mixing of subtitles and buttons is not permitted in the Menu Domains; only sub pictures enclosed by button hotspots are allowed to display there. I'm sure you were referring, correctly, to that?
This is why DVDAfterEdit will throw the screen below when you import or replace a VOB in the Menu domains with a Track VOB containing subtitles and/or buttons on video. It's only safe, in this instance, to import a VOB with just buttons on video, and no 'free floating', i.e. 'unhotspotted' sub pictures.
Subtitles, with display and timing info embedded in the stream itself, as opposed to button highlights, i.e., just "sub pictures"; which count on their display settings by VOB navigation pack (and not from any various embedded subtitle stream data), are not allowed in the Menu domains; as the menu domain doesn't contain any 'subtitle' stream slots - only places for various aspect sub pictures for button highlights and groups.
Funny story about DVDAfterEdit's replace MenuVob feature, btw. During development of the program I was pushing for this feature of allowing buttons on video in the Tracks to be placed into the menu domains, mainly so we could do the animated button highlights in the menus; but my partner and the programming team told me up and down that it was against spec and impossible. Of course, I had the spec books too, and was able, after a month of heated (putting it mildly) debate, explaining the distinction between subtitles and 'just sub pictures', was able to gain acquiescence and get the feature implemented. That Alert screen above, is the result of the compromise, and rightly, warns the user to only import 'buttons on video'.
But it's OK in the Title Domains as I outlined in my previous reply; meaning OK by spec, doesn't trip up verifiers, and plays away in players.
Take care,
Trai
Trai Forrester - DVD pioneer, consultant -------------------------------------------------------------------- Owner -New Constellation Technologies Chair - The DVD Producers' Guild (launching April!) Principle - TFDVD Research Labs Co-Creator - DVDAfterEdit (divested) -------------------------------------------------------------------- 645 Penfield Avenue, Havertown PA (outside Philadelphia) 19083 USA 800-213-2297 - 610-924-9204 - fax: 610-924-0657
Re: button highlights AND subtitles in ONE track? by Trai Forrester on Mar 12, 2007 at 11:50:16 pm
Hi Eric,
This is entirely possible by Specification, and DVD SP can even do it, just so you know. I did massive (15 rounds of testing in 68 players) compatibility and DVD Spec tests for a major sports league, where several different authoring systems were used to see which one could output the best, partly, on this exact question (It was a pure multiple angle DVD project, to boot).
Any subtitle file can only have a portion of it be under a button hotspot; the rest of the graphic/text will still show with the regular limited subtitle color pallete, exactly the same as if this portion of the graphic were "normal" (unselected) button highlights.
The trick: DVD SP forces every subtitle to be enclosed by cell boundary, unlike with Scenarist; so if you want 7 subtitles to change during a button's display, and for there to be a short period during this time with no subtitles and just the button, you'll need, say, 10 cells designated as "buttons on video" (undesignate them as chapters), one cell enclosing each different subtitle, again; a portion of which is the actual button, and in those seconds without a subtitle, just the button.
The "button" part of the subtitle graphic, enclosed by hotspot, will need to occupy the exact same position not to give away that it's really multiple instances of itself, as playback through these butted up cells containing subtitles and 'just' the button (to allow a gap between subtitles) is seamless; so going with graphic files for better precise control of the subtitles' positions (they, and the button can be located anywhere on-screen) would be a good way to go for this treatment ( if one can't make the button graphic a Font, it will have to be with graphic files).
So you'll need to add some subtitle text to your different version button graphics, Christian; and it would be good to have these 'button on' instances of subtitles also match your 'regular' subtitles, so you may as well do the whole subtitle Track as graphic files (proper subtitle creation is a whole 'nuther kettle!).
Take care,
Trai
Trai Forrester - DVD pioneer, consultant -------------------------------------------------------------------- Owner -New Constellation Technologies Chair - The DVD Producers' Guild (launching April!) Principle - TFDVD Research Labs Co-Creator - DVDAfterEdit (divested) -------------------------------------------------------------------- 645 Penfield Avenue, Havertown PA (outside Philadelphia) 19083 USA 800-213-2297 - 610-924-9204 - fax: 610-924-0657
Re: button highlights AND subtitles in ONE track? by eric on Mar 14, 2007 at 1:41:51 pm
Wow..Thanks Trai. So your saying that your subtitles and your "button" would occupy the same stream in the title? What would be the case if you had to import a text file of subtitles from a third party?
Re: button highlights AND subtitles in ONE track? by Trai Forrester on Mar 14, 2007 at 4:03:34 pm
Hi Eric,
Yes, this is the preferred way of working with subtitles and mixing them with buttons; unless you've just got a few to piece together on the Track timeline. The whole Track would need to be taken into consideration in advance; i.e. where are the button on and off boundary cell location's exact timecode (can only be on an I-frame), where are any chapters going to go?, etc.; for no subtitle and or subtitle buttons display durations can cross cell boundaries, as you know; and we've got 256 cells per track.
Working with the third party bureau will probably mean adjusting some of their timecode for the series of subtitle graphics they'll create, to match up with what you're doing with the periodic groups of multiple cells containing buttons. The experience with the bureau will depend on how well they understand what you're doing; or will do exactly as you specify, even if they don't :-)
When the time comes to declare the various cells as containing buttons, if everything was taken into account (which I haven't here), the imported subtitle file will overlay precisely in the Chapter/cell prepared Track, ready for the author to drag out the button hotspots, where appropriate.
Take care,
Trai
Trai Forrester - DVD pioneer, consultant -------------------------------------------------------------------- Owner -New Constellation Technologies Chair - The DVD Producers' Guild (launching April!) Principle - TFDVD Research Labs Co-Creator - DVDAfterEdit (divested) -------------------------------------------------------------------- 645 Penfield Avenue, Havertown PA (outside Philadelphia) 19083 USA 800-213-2297 - 610-924-9204 - fax: 610-924-0657
The DVD Producers' Guild (launching April!)
DVDAfterEdit (divested)
