Shake studies -A useful simple effect that has been used in a film sequence
by dash1969
on
Dec 31, 2006 at 7:20:45 am
Andrew,
"If there are any particular effects shots from recent films that you might want a guess done"
Ok I could pick a really cool effect shot from a film sequences but I don't want to go in over my head.So for starters what cool but useful simple effect that you know from a film that I can do just using Shake right out of the box.
And this shot would be making the use of basic mask and rotoshape but with no cg elements only real elements?
Re: Shake studies -A useful simple effect that has been used in a film sequence by Andrew Shanks on Dec 31, 2006 at 7:17:01 pm
As the Capt says, Marco's book has some nice tutorials that step you through things (such as comping a giant transformers style CG robot into a city scene, etc). All the techniques you see there and in the Shake Tutorial manual are ones that we use for feature film work, ...the thing with visual effects is that it is a problem solving exercise, ...you are like a tradesman with a limited bag of tools and tricks, ...its how you combine and use these tools to make a problem into art, that is the real core of what we do (...and trust me, a lot of the time we are fixing nightmare shots rather than working on perfect plates).
My advice is go through the Shake tutorial book first. If you hunger for more then have a look at the Apple Pro Training series Shake 4 book (by Marco Paolini), which is very very good training resource. The other book that is a little more advanced but which I am really liking (have already reached for it for reference on a scene I've been doing) is the Apple Pro training series Encylopedia of Visual Effects (this actually has a section at the back entitled "Shake in a Day" and is basically lifted from Marco's Shake 4 book), ...it also has examples from various films on how to do things such as lightsabres, matte paintings, etc, ...as well as being a general reference book and cookbook for fx techniques (I'm loving it and I think it's one of those rare books that spans the range from beginner to old pro).
If you want to read the real skinny onn Rotoscoping, go to Scott Squires blog site, ...that man is a god, ...us humble vfx peasants bow down chanting the words "we're not worthy, we're not worthy", ...he really is a bright cookie and a real inavator in our industry, so yeah, these couple of bloogs he did on roto work really do a great job of summing up the best techniques for roto work:
Basically think up a cool effect you want to do. You have that lightsabre tutorial link, maybe try that first, ...if you have a dv video camera, shoot a friend in front of greenscreen (just a drop of blue card/paper from an art store is all you need), ...then you can run through the tips and tricks in the shake manual with how to key a nasty DV video clip. Ask friends to see if they have any cool skits they would like to film, ...make a little project of it (it will also give you motivation to push your skills forward if you have a goal, ...and having friends hassling you about "is it done yet", or coming and looking over your shoulder and going "woah, cool!" is all the motivation you need to keep charging ahead).
Shake is a great tool, ...out of the box it can do everything you would normally need to do to complete a film effect (things it doesn't do are particles, 3d animation, and full 3d matcmoving, ...but in fx companies you have pipelines and use different specialized software for each of those tasks (indeed 3d has many departments, ...even 2d usually has roto dept (split itself into matte work and paint), junior compers, mid level compers, senior/lead compers, supervisors, and the matte painting dept (which now bridges 2d and 3d)).
Hope that is of some help?
Goodluck and Happy New Years!! Its beautiful here in 2007 (...i love living in the first country on the globe to see the sunlight of the new year :-)
Re: Shake studies -A useful simple effect that has been used in a film sequence by dash1969 on Jan 3, 2007 at 7:58:20 am
Andrew,
AS always you have been a great help.
"All the techniques you see there and in the Shake Tutorial manual are ones that we use for feature film work"
"the thing with visual effects is that it is a problem solving exercise, ...you are like a tradesman with a limited bag of tools and tricks, ...its how you combine and use these tools to make a problem into art, that is the real core of what we do (...and trust me, a lot of the time we are fixing nightmare shots rather than working on perfect plates)"
Thanks these inputs are the kind of things one needs to know.
As doing the Robot from Shake 4 book (by Marco Paolini) I also comp the flower over the table from the Shake Tut Book that came with Shake in the Box very cool!!!Since I believe both comps are similar with the only exception of different elements and different style one was after.Both very good and well explain.
So before I go on I would like to use both of this to comp my own live elements and not worry about getting everything looking perfect just gather my live elements to gather so I can practice using what they did using maybe not great looking live elements but at least be able to file in the live elements or if need be prepare it before bing the sources into SHK.Then just like in those two first try to recreate those effects but using my own live elements.
Just as you said"and trust me, a lot of the time we are fixing nightmare shots rather than working on perfect plates)."
Since both of these are more or less all cg with some live action there with the Robot.
Quick Summary:
I would like to recreate a similar project comp and effects as the Flower over the Table tut but only using live elements not cg since do 3D yet.
So I guess maybe this question would be in order would it be possible to recreate this type shot comp without 3D?
And if so what would I need to do this?
Hardware: Old but useful
Canon PowerShot G3 Digital Camera 4 Meg Pixel with Raw mode
Re: Shake studies -A useful simple effect that has been used in a film sequence by Andrew Shanks on Jan 3, 2007 at 8:47:07 am
Probably the best start is to take your digital still camera, take a photo of a table in a suitable setting (use this for your background, instead of the box), and then take a digital still of some other object, ...maybe try a flower in a vase just like in the example, against some blue or green cardboard/paper, ...you want to match the camera angles in both shots, so may I suggest mounting the camera on a tripod, and locking it up tight so you can shoot the object at the same camera angle, distance, etc, ...of course if you just shoot a shot straight on, it will be the easiest). You then would use keylight or primatte to pull the key (follow the keying exercises in either Marco or the shake tutorial books). Once you have a handle on the basics with that. Move onto filming some stuff with you video camera (note DV is not brilliant, but having said that, the shake manual has some tips for keying DV, and its good practice as even HD footage can be nasty noisey at time), ...again, start off with locked shots, ...maybe film an outdoor scene, ...then film a friend doing something in front of a greenscreen (again, just get some green cardboard or whatever, and shoot outside, trying to avoid hot spots and shadows on the screen, ...a good overcast day is best, ...google the net for greenscreen tips, or head to my site (www.vfx.co.nz) for links to more info on the practicalities). Once you have mastered that, try filming a car going past camera, ...then try tracking a sign onto the side of that car, ...or (as the old Discreet Flame tutorials used to do, ...film someone with a hat and track a new logo onto the hat). Just look at the examples in the tutorial books then go out and shoot things you think are similar. ...you can even mic and match, there are no rules, so why not shoot a background with your camera, and put the robot in there (have the robot walking through your backyard maybe?). Go wild!!
Re: Shake studies -A useful simple effect that has been used in a film sequence by dash1969 on Jan 5, 2007 at 7:11:30 am
Andrew,
Thanks a lot for a nice work flow along with explained on how one should approach these.And great of you mentioning to all about what Shake is and what Shake is not
"Shake is a great tool, ...out of the box it can do everything you would normally need to do to complete a film effect (things it doesn't do are particles, 3d animation, and full 3d matcmoving, ."
Ok now I was wondering where I can post results in here or images to show for help?
Re: Shake studies -A useful simple effect that has been used in a film sequence by dash1969 on Jan 3, 2007 at 6:59:42 am
CaptainMench,
Thanks a lot for the Roto tips and I just got that book today and I have comp the first part of "Transformer Robot" together very cool!!!
