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AJA Io Final Cut 5, Dropping Frames

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jus10caseAJA Io Final Cut 5, Dropping Frames
by on Jun 20, 2006 at 4:23:10 pm

OK here is the long and drawn out problem I am having.

I have a Dual G5 1.8, with 1.25GB of RAM. 80GB OS Drive, running OSX 10.3.9. AJA Io running the 2.1 driver (tried the 3 driver, but it seemed really flaky)

There is a 2nd SATA 200GB (ST3200822AS)internal drive that I have been capturing to for 8 months with no problem at SDI 10Bit Uncompressed from my digibeta deck. I pulled that 200GB drive and replaced it with a 500GB 7200 16MB Cache Segate (ST3500641AS). With the 500GB drive it immediatly started dropping frames on capture. So I benchmarked the drives and the 500GB was a MB or two slower than the 200GB so I bought another 500GB drive and Raid 0'd them together using the SwiftData 200 kit from transintl.com. This config tests out at about 90MB/sec read, and over 100MB/sec write, and still I get the dropped frames problem. Can anyone help? Please? I am starting to have to capture 128Min at a time and the 200GB drive just isn't large enough to hold it.


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marcrayRe: AJA Io Final Cut 5, Dropping Frames
by on Jun 20, 2006 at 8:28:02 pm

I too am having this same problem but with a macbook using an extermal sata enclosure with 2 drives. My system benchmarks at 120MB but still drops frames.



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jus10caseRe: AJA Io Final Cut 5, Dropping Frames
by on Jun 20, 2006 at 8:38:15 pm

I talked with a guy at AJA today, and he wants to think that it's just physically something about the drives causing it. I'm not so sure I buy into that though since they are the same brand/speed as my 200GB single drive, that tests at like 40MB/sec and captures perfectly at 10bit uncompressed. And yet I have seen stranger. :)


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marcrayRe: AJA Io Final Cut 5, Dropping Frames
by on Jun 20, 2006 at 10:05:10 pm

Which program are you using to benchmark the drives? If you are using the kona test suite you may want to check the graph for random drops in the write speed.

Marc



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Tony!Re: AJA Io Final Cut 5, Dropping Frames
by on Jun 20, 2006 at 8:38:35 pm

My first thought is that you need to make sure you format the drives as "Mac OS Extended" not "Mac OS Extended Journaled"

Next, I would follow the recommendations of AJA as follows:

Q: I


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jus10caseRe: AJA Io Final Cut 5, Dropping Frames
by on Jun 20, 2006 at 8:54:40 pm

Yea I DID have them as Journaled before (and my 200GB drive that works perfectly is currenlty Journaled) but I did correct that the other day per the AJA "support" site, as well as try several other of their suggestions. I was on the phone with a tech person at AJA today, and they actually pointed me to this site as a place to see if anyone had any suggestions on ways to fix it.


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marcrayRe: AJA Io Final Cut 5, Dropping Frames
by on Jun 20, 2006 at 10:03:06 pm

Tony,

I have gone through all the reccomendations aja has to offer including calling tech support. Also the drives are not journled but just formatted Mac OS Extended. I think I forgot to mention but the problem only seems to be during capture as I can playback from the timeline fine. I just ran another benchmark using the Kona test suite and it does show some fluctuations down to 80mb per second during write tests. Do you think 2 striped sata drives should work if I put this on a g5? I do not have a sata card in my g5 so I would need to purchase one, but hate to put any more money into the situation if I am not at least somewhat sure it will work:) Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Marc



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Bob ZelinRe: AJA Io Final Cut 5, Dropping Frames
by on Jun 21, 2006 at 10:53:28 pm

you have not said what resolution you are working at - DV25, or 10 bit uncompressed SDI - or something in between ? If you are using 8 and 10 bit SDI uncompressed, or DVCProHD, you will never get reliable results with one single drive. I urge you to use an external SATA host controller card (like the firmtek or Sonnet), and TWO SATA drives that are stripped togeher RAID 0. You will easily get 120mb/sec speeds, which will do 8 and 10 bit SDI uncomrpessed with no dropped frames. One SATA drive will do nothing for you reliably.

Bob Zelin


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jus10caseRe: AJA Io Final Cut 5, Dropping Frames
by on Jun 21, 2006 at 10:58:18 pm

I was trying 10bit uncompressed from the DigiBeta. I have a firmtek internal SATA card with two 500GB Seagate drives Stipped Raid 0. It's a kit from Transintl.com that allows you to mount up to 3 more internal drives in the G5's. It's avg around 100mb/sec according to the kona test thing from aja. I also looked at the graph and text from that test and it does slighly fluctuate, but never more than 10mb/sec or so.


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jus10caseRe: AJA Io Final Cut 5, Dropping Frames
by on Jun 23, 2006 at 6:42:15 pm

The other strange thing about it, is that I can move the media from my 200GB single drive to the two raid 0 500GB drives and edit 10bit uncompressed with no frame drops at all, but still it drops during capture.


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Bob ZelinRe: AJA Io Final Cut 5, Dropping Frames
by on Jun 24, 2006 at 10:01:02 pm

just10case writes -
The other strange thing about it, is that I can move the media from my 200GB single drive to the two raid 0 500GB drives and edit 10bit uncompressed with no frame drops at all, but still it drops during capture

REPLY - this is not strange. when you move media onto your 500 gig drives, the READ SPEED is faster than the WRITE SPEED. If you simply run AJA Kona System test, you will see that the read speed of your 500 Gig drives is faster than the write speed (it's all right in front of you on the display). If you would like to persue this further, please list EXACTLY what SATA host card you have, and EXACTLY what SATA drives you are using.
I find it very hard to believe that you are able to CONSISTANTLY do an entire editing job at 10 bit uncompressed SDI off of one single 200 Gig drive. There is a big difference between doing a simple capture and playback, and actually editing, and asking the drive to search all over the place for material.

Bob Zelin


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jus10caseRe: AJA Io Final Cut 5, Dropping Frames
by on Jun 25, 2006 at 1:59:11 am

From my original post, here is my drive configuration..

( There is a 2nd SATA 200GB (ST3200822AS)internal drive that I have been capturing to for 8 months with no problem at SDI 10Bit Uncompressed from my digibeta deck. I pulled that 200GB drive and replaced it with a 500GB 7200 16MB Cache Segate (ST3500641AS). With the 500GB drive it immediatly started dropping frames on capture. So I benchmarked the drives and the 500GB was a MB or two slower than the 200GB so I bought another 500GB drive and Raid 0'd them together using the SwiftData 200 kit from transintl.com. This config tests out at about 90MB/sec read, and over 100MB/sec write, and still I get the dropped frames problem. Can anyone help? Please? I am starting to have to capture 128Min at a time and the 200GB drive just isn't large enough to hold it. )

The internal SATA card that comes with the SwiftData kit is a FirmTek SeriTek/1V4 that gives you 4 internal ports.

As far as editing, I have been doing edit jobs on it, for 8 or 9 months now I guess, with just the 200GB drive, and I have just never really run into any problems. I know it doesn't make sense, it doesn't to me, but before I ran into this problem with the 500GB drives I had never really researched the requirements. The system was originally bought mainly to do DVD's on, but due to a shortage of machines to work on and our workload, I was forced to do cut a bunch of spots on it, and some longer format stuff also. I have a new Avid Adrenaline going up next week so that will take care of some of strain on our final cut machine, but I would like to have it function the way it theoretically should. I saved the text of the kona test from both the 2 500GB raid 0 and the single 200GB drive but I don't have them on me, but I will get them off of our final cut machine on monday and post them.


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Bob ZelinRe: AJA Io Final Cut 5, Dropping Frames
by on Jun 25, 2006 at 3:43:06 pm

you write -
The internal SATA card that comes with the SwiftData kit is a FirmTek SeriTek/1V4 that gives you 4 internal ports.


I use the Seritek 1SE2 and Seritek 1VE4 cards ALL THE TIME, and even the 1SE2 with Seagate SATA drives (7200.9) gives 128mb/sec performance with 2 drives stripped together. If you are only getting 90-100mb/sec from two drives stripped together, then something else is loading down your system - perhaps you have a slower Firewire card in the same buss with your SATA host card. May I suggest to you that you remove EVERYTHING from your computer (including any capture cards like AJA and Blackmagic), and just keep the Firmtek card in there. Then do the speed tests with AJA Kona System test. If you still only get 90-100mb/sec with both drives at RAID 0, please delete the raid group, and try one drive at a time, to see if one drive is flakey in it's performance. There is no reason that you should not be able to get over 120mb/sec performance with your setup and your Seagate drives. I am assuming (with no info from you) that you may have a firewire or other card in your MAC in addition to the SATA card (and I don't mean an AJA Kona card - which should be in a different buss, like the PCI-X buss).


I did not see where you wrote down what MAC G5 you have, but I assume it's a newer MAC G5, and NOT a MAC dual 1.8GHz machine. I recently posted that I used a dual 1.8 for the first time, and I COULD NOT get over 80mb/sec with the new Sonnet X4P and Sonnet Fusion Chassis with 5 Seagate 500 Gig drives all at RAID 0. This identical setup in a dual 2.7 MAC G5 does 178mb/sec write and 220mb/sec read, but in the dual 1.8 gig MAC will not exceed 80mb/sec. Go figure.

Please keep me in the loop on your test results.

Bob Zelin


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jus10caseRe: AJA Io Final Cut 5, Dropping Frames
by on Jun 25, 2006 at 5:54:29 am

Whats with all the CAPS and negative comments? EVERY piece of information that you say is needed to persue furter, was all in the ORIGINAL post (please read for comprehension and then proceed).


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Bob ZelinRe: AJA Io Final Cut 5, Dropping Frames
by on Jun 25, 2006 at 3:45:06 pm

you write -
Whats with all the CAPS and negative comments?

REPLY -
becuase you deserve a slap. Just because.

Bob Zelin


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Tony!Re: AJA Io Final Cut 5, Dropping Frames
by on Jul 2, 2006 at 9:57:48 pm

Bob's comment about having problems with the 1.8ghz Mac's is similar to what I've remember reading others have complaining about. It seems like the buss speed in those Mac's is slower, or somehow restricted, causing problems with some hardware/pci cards. If possible try using a different Mac and see if your problems go away. You can always sell your 1.8 and buy a used 2.0 ghz Mac (or better) for relatively little cost. Other than that, I'm not sure what your problems might be. If you get any more info about your problem, or solution, please pass it along to us. Also, I know you spoke to AJA, but its not a bad idea to contact them again with whatever additional details you can supply to see if they have any similar experiences or possible solutions. Contacting the SATA card manufacturer might be even a better place to start as this problem appears to not caused in anyway by the Io itself.

Good Luck, let us know if you find a solution

Tony!


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