The footage I'm getting out of my EX1 can't be what everyone else is getting! It's so incredibly noisy, it borders on being unusable. I posted a clip showing 1080/30p HQ footage. Shot at -3 gain, f8, no ND filter. So there's plenty of light. I've posted a 200% portion of what I'm seeing.
(I captured with SnapZ Pro X and exported at Animation / Millions /100 quality. So my screen capture isn't introducing any secondary lossy compression)
Is anyone else getting such dog food footage? Is there a magic button I need to press? :)
Re: XDCAM EX.... so noisy! by Noah Kadner on Jul 1, 2008 at 12:24:21 am
Yup that's a very noisy clip. I've seen EX1 looking three times cleaner easily. F8 would indicate an amazingly high level of studio lighting so I'd guess underexposure. Should be more like 5.6 4, etc. But then again it's hard to tell what I'm looking at there- settings, lighting ingest method, etc. Looks recompressed/processed somehow. For composites that are totally clean you also have the option of going out HD-SDI. Also I would recommend zero gain, not -3.
Re: XDCAM EX.... so noisy! by Juan Martinez on Jul 1, 2008 at 4:16:33 am
If I'm not mistaken, SnapZ Pro X is a "screen capture" utility. The image is being decoded by some software application and re encoded. My guess is that you are seeing is the effect of concatenation losses. Try capturing to Final Cut directly. I belive that you will not experience the same issue.
Re: XDCAM EX.... so noisy! by Navarro Parker on Jul 1, 2008 at 4:52:08 am
Hi Juan! Great to see a Sony person here! We've had two EX1's for a couples months and we've never been able to get an image any better than this.
I can verify this is the noise I'm seeing *before* I run SnapZ Pro. It's recording the noise accurately and not introducing any more than what I see when I don't run it. That's why I posted a losslessly compressed Quicktime. This IS the problem noise I'm seeing.
We've connected an EX1 to a HD monitor via SDI and live video looks smooth, crisp, and noise free. As soon as we record to the SxS cards, all these artifacts appear when we ingest it into Final Cut (using the latest XDCAM Transfer app).
I want to point the finger at the XDCAM Quicktime codec that the Transfer app installs. It seems like the weak link and not ready for prime time.
Re: XDCAM EX.... so noisy! by Don Greening on Jul 1, 2008 at 6:16:24 am
[Navarro Parker]"I want to point the finger at the XDCAM Quicktime codec that the Transfer app installs. It seems like the weak link and not ready for prime time"
Well, it's certainly not the weak link here. Keep in mind that the SDI signal is coming straight off the camera head before any camera compression is applied. So, like you've suggested, there's a problem afterwards, either in-camera during compression or during the transfer process. Although I can't pin down your problem from here I can say that there's an awful lot of people using the Sony Transfer Tool every day to convert their XDCAM EX .mp4 files to .mov files and they're not seeing excessive picture noise issues. The internet is littered with noise-free EX footage.
You'll need to track down the cause by doing some tests.
- Transfer the files recorded by your camera to someone else's Mac.
- Borrow another EX and transfer those files to your Mac.
It won't be long before you've isolated the cause. If it turns out to be a camera issue then Sony will help you and either fix your camera or give you a new one. This last statement is from personal experience.
Re: XDCAM EX.... so noisy! by Noah Kadner on Jul 1, 2008 at 4:01:59 pm
Yeah I'd guess- one of two things:
a- With respect, operator error either in settings or exposure.
b- Faulty camera or ingest procedures.
That's way beyond the levels of noise I've even seen with an EX1 and if that's your normal results there's something wrong with your camera or perhaps a mistake somewhere in camera settings or ingest.
Re: XDCAM EX.... so noisy! by Navarro Parker on Jul 1, 2008 at 8:23:26 pm
Hey guys... I truly appreciate all the comments. I'm not doing anything weird. I'm plugging the EX1 to my MacPro, using the latest XDCAM Transfer app (2.7.0). And that resulting MOV is getting put into Final Cut Pro 6.0.4. And I'm also taking that same file into After Effects 8.0.3.
And all I'm getting is noise noise noise. :(
The problem exists across four Mac Pros, three iMacs and two EX1 cams.
I should be able to turn on a factory fresh EX1, push the record button and get noise free footage, right? There's not any special setting 'reduce noise' function that isn't active by default, right?
Re: XDCAM EX.... so noisy! by Don Greening on Jul 1, 2008 at 8:59:05 pm
[Navarro Parker]"I should be able to turn on a factory fresh EX1, push the record button and get noise free footage, right?"
Correct, as long as you haven't pushed the magic button (full auto) and the EX is dialing in picture gain all by itself.
[Navarro Parker]"There's not any special setting 'reduce noise' function that isn't active by default, right? "
Again, you are correct. There is no "reduce noise" button or similar menu item. When my replacement EX showed up a week or so ago I took it out of the box, changed from 1080i to 1080p, set my manual knee point to 80% IN PP1, manual gain to -3 and got noise free footage first time out. I'm using the first version of the Sony Transfer Tool, FCP v.6.0.2 on a MacPro tower running OS 10.4.11.
Re: XDCAM EX.... so noisy! by rene hazekamp on Jul 1, 2008 at 9:17:31 pm
Well, I did some minor tests and after examining the shots (3), I see your point. Not that I get this horrible results as you got. - maybe that's because of a different background color, light, etc-
But I have to admit that most shots (even older one's I was perfectly happy with) are a tad noisy.
-what does it say about my professionalism ?
The ex + the ex codec might not be the best couple to use when you want to key your shots and maybe only usable after a lot of tweaking. Good for me I only make documentaries (and family films)
-but I have say your shots looked extra extra bad, i don't know why
I am longing to buy an EX1 but now...? I looked to some footage I shot at a Sony dealer. There is also noise. Compared to HDV Fx1: Almost no noise! Please post some frames with original .mp4 or .mxf file! Please shoot a second outside with sunshine and shadow in same picture! I am using Edius on a PC.
Re: XDCAM EX.... so noisy! by Tom David on Jul 3, 2008 at 12:41:27 am
This might sound like a stupid suggestion at this point, but have you checked that your not shooting with the FULL AUTO button on (left side of camera)? If you are shooting at f8, and the camera thinks that this is underexposed, it will crank the gain automatically to compensate which might suggest your high gain in picture.
I haven't had grain issues yet with this camera, so keep fighting the good fight!
Cheers,
Tom
Camera Operator - Editor - Motion Graphics
(http://www.tomdavid.com.au)
