quicktime Combustion horrors...
by matt willis-jones
on
Oct 25, 2009 at 10:25:45 pm
Right hello again...
ok. I have defected to PC to run combustion on.
for the most part its a huge relief.
But i have an incredibly annoying problem and i wonder if there is anything i can do about it:
I have quicktime installed on the PC. I can read quicktime movies in it, no problem.
But i cannot read them in Combustion.
also - although Combustion will write quicktime's - i can only open them on the PC. On mac they open with the bottom half of the screen blacked out.
oh dear.
Presently i have to render out tiffs to an external HD and then use Quicktime on the mac to convert them. This ends up taking about 4 hours. Double oh dear.
Am i completely naive in thinking that Quicktime would work properly on PC? Or is there something i can do to be able to render Quicktimes on a PC that will open on a mac?
The codec i am using is the AvidDNxHD codec - which is perhaps the most accurate cross platform codec i've seen - the movies do look almost identical on mac or PC ... which only adds to my suprise that it won't work across platforms.. .
obviously i am limited to rendering in 3 minute chunks (4GB) even if i could get it to work - but in my workflow that would be no problem at all.
however - wasting time rendering to an external disk when i could be rendering direct to my solid state drive, and then having to spend around 4 hours converting 26 mins of tiffs is a a problem for me.
so - if anyone has any suggestions i would be delighted!
ps: i tried reading the quicktimes in VLC on the mac - but VLC didn't understnad the Avid codec... hmmm...
i realise this question is on the cusp of not being about Combustion at all but i thought i'd give it shot on this forum.... (!)
Re: quicktime Combustion horrors... by Dean DeCarlo on Oct 26, 2009 at 2:19:32 am
Well, the first thing I would have said is to avoid Quicktime as it is evil and to use image sequences. PNG read and write quicker than TIFFs in my experience. Since you are unhappy using TIFFs I'd say to use Quicktime with compression = NONE. Not UNCOMPRESSED but NONE. If you are using Quciktimes back and forth from Mac to PC you will have gamma shifts in your material if you use almost any other codec including Animation. Combustion really only supports the older codecs so I'm not sure how robust it's tolerance for a recent vintage Avid codec is going to be. Try reading an H.264 quicktime in to Combustion and it will crash. I've spent a lot of time working around this and the best method is PNG files but if you MUST use quicktime go with NONE compression. Good luck!
Re: quicktime Combustion horrors... by matt willis-jones on Oct 26, 2009 at 8:27:00 am
well since my initial post i have found that my problem revolves around running XP64 - apparently it is quite well known that quicktime doesn't work well with that. (Well known by everyone except me, that is)
but i must say - in MY experience:
- TGAS render about 10-12% faster than TIFFS, and TIFFS render almost twice as fast as PNGs.
- the AvidDNxHD codec is quite remarkable for avoiding gamma issue across platforms.
also i have no problems reading H.264s in Combustion (on mac). In fact - i have had no problems with any qt codecs on a mac.
i guess i must now look to either vista 64 or W7 64... anyone running Combustion on W7 64? ....
Re: quicktime Combustion horrors... by Alan Okey on Oct 26, 2009 at 5:38:34 pm
According to Autodesk's Combustion system requirements page, it appears that Combustion is not officially certified to run on anything newer than Windows XP SP2.
Re: quicktime Combustion horrors... by matt willis-jones on Oct 26, 2009 at 5:53:37 pm
C* runs fine on Xp64 - its quicktime i have the problem with...
someone else on this forum - Phil i think - said he has success running C* on Vista 64 .... and i hear that quicktime has no problem there... so perhaps that is where i shall head next. More money out the door. Or is that window(s)?
Re: quicktime Combustion horrors... by ryan kelly on Oct 26, 2009 at 6:18:59 pm
I use c on Vista 64 and XP64 + quicktime (v7.2) without (aside from the usual) problems. It's great to get the extra RAM in the 64bit world... I also use the avid dnx codecs to deliver to our avid suites. the last installer i used for the dnx codecs was "AVID CODECS LE 1.1". Our avids are pc based now but i never had an issue when they were mac based and i wasn't in regards to the Avid codec. SO... maybe it's your version of quicktime/avid codec? I never went higher that quicktime 7.2 because of weirdness in later quicktime versions.
Re: quicktime Combustion horrors... by matt willis-jones on Oct 26, 2009 at 9:35:27 pm
turns out i have the 2.1 version of the avid codec... not the 1.1 ... grrr... and after some elimination testing i am 99% sure this is the cause of my problems.
12 hours ago i was equally convinced that XP64 was the cause. I'm just pointing the finger wherever the wind blows, eh?
ok. I have the 1.1 codec for mac... now just need it for PC ...
Re: quicktime Combustion horrors... by matt willis-jones on Oct 26, 2009 at 9:48:47 pm
Ryan - after all your help i feel a little guilty asking you this (!) but i can't find the AVID CODECS LE 1.1 anywhere... I have it for the mac (but that's not much help)
any chance of another one of those magic links.... ;)
Re: quicktime Combustion horrors... by matt willis-jones on Oct 26, 2009 at 10:02:44 pm
DId i say thank you?
ok. back to the office...
(in case you are wondering, internet is down at office so i have to keep driving home to mail, and then back to office to experiement... fortunately its a short drive!)
Re: quicktime Combustion horrors... by matt willis-jones on Oct 27, 2009 at 3:44:35 pm
Ryan - jsut wanted to let you know that it all works perfectly. Turns out the problems i encountered on my mac were not shared by the big mac with the Avid. Looks PERFECT.
in fact - i compared a QT made on the PC and one on the Mac - absolutely 100% identical. ;) ;) ;) ;)
Re: quicktime Combustion horrors... by matt willis-jones on Oct 26, 2009 at 10:47:26 pm
alas ... this is not the solution. Wrong codec. White screen and a 'not responding quicktime'.
Oh well. I'm going to leave this for tonight.
Thank you for all your help! (ps: the 2.1 codec i have - which i have re-installed - can open the avid QTs... and it appears to be able to write them too, but they open with the bottom half of the screen black (when opened on the mac)
the mac has the LE 1.1 codec ... so ... it seems simple enough to just install the 2.1 codec on the mac, except that my client has his system set up with the LE 1.1 codec - and i'm fairly sure it'll cause havoc for him (whoooah! bad idea!) to change codecs to LE 2.1 ...
it is possible he has a disk sitting around somewhere with the 1.1 codec for PCs... That'd be nice! ;)
Re: quicktime Combustion horrors... by Dean DeCarlo on Oct 26, 2009 at 7:45:51 pm
I was referring to Windows. I definitely have not seen that kind of performance difference between TGAs, TIFFs and PNGs but whatever works. If you try to open an H.264 in Combustion Windows version it will crash. The only quicktime codec we've used here that seems solid is None. Files are large but at least there is no gamma BS to contend with. If you are exporting out of Final Cut etc. I highly recommend you avoid Quicktime and using image sequences. Gamma shifts are highly likely otherwise.
Re: quicktime Combustion horrors... by matt willis-jones on Oct 26, 2009 at 7:56:38 pm
yeah that gamma crap is something awful. I used to use a quantel eq and ran into issues even using NONE when going from the eQ to FCP. (AARRRRRRRGHHHHHHH!!!!!)
one day we'll find out where they make quicktime. yeah we'll find them and make them pay.
until then... just ... got ...to ... make ...it .... work......
Re: quicktime Combustion horrors... by Dean DeCarlo on Oct 26, 2009 at 8:09:24 pm
Haven't had a problem with None yet but I don't doubt that Quicktime will screw that up too. Generally, I stick to the oft repeated adage here to use Image Sequences in and out of everything. That way I know that I am not responsible for accidentally changing gamma, colors, frame rate, aspect etc. at the end of a job. The only reason I'm using Quicktime with None at all is because I work with a bunch of Final Cut editors that cannot bring a sequence in to FCP directly so they bring it in to After Effects and make a quicktime there. More often than not they screw something up there and then come back to me a day later in a panic that the footage doesn't match or something. At least this way I can provide a QT that they can read directly and can A/B in FCP to see that it is the same as the original. For output I insist on image sequences as there doesn't seem to be a safe way to go from Mac to PC.
This link is Apple's somewhat lame explanation of why there is a gamma shift in Quicktime. At least partially about correcting for Apple's non-standard 1.8 monitor gamma. Urgh. Shake in this example represents all non-Quicktime (read: NORMAL) based applications.
Re: quicktime Combustion horrors... by Dean DeCarlo on Oct 26, 2009 at 8:16:20 pm
Oh darn, I just re-read that Apple link. They've updated it. The solution USED to be to put a gamma correction of .818 on the incoming footage to correct it back to where it was originally! Good one Apple! Step on the gamma and then re-adjust back. That's high end graphics all right. At least they've got part of their head out of their ass. Sorry for the rant but you can't get me started on Quicktime.....
Re: quicktime Combustion horrors... by matt willis-jones on Oct 26, 2009 at 8:33:22 pm
.. you're bringing back repressed memories!!!! Shake vs FCP was one of my worst nightmares from 2003-5... looking back i think it might have had something to do with why i gave the Quantel a shot.. !
