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Which HDMI Monitor?

COW Forums : Matrox Video Systems

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Glenn HughesWhich HDMI Monitor?
by on Jan 8, 2010 at 12:59:06 am

Just ordered the MXO2 LE with MAX and am totally lost as to which HDMI monitor/tv to purchase. What Matrox suggests (and what I'm looking for) is HDMI, 1920 x 1080, 10-bit and 1:1 pixel mapping (which I haven't seen listed as a spec for ANY monitor). The only ones I can find that come close are the Sony Bravia (32") and the Sharp Aquos (40"). Anyone using anything with those specs SMALLER than 32"? I have no room for a 23" ACD, a 15" SD monitor AND a 32" HD monitor. Any suggestions?


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Jerry HofmannRe: Which HDMI Monitor?
by on Jan 8, 2010 at 1:09:06 pm

What sort of budget do you have? There are some smaller professional grading monitors that have that spec, but they aren't inexpensive... it's that 10 bit spec that drives up the price. As far as I know, there are no 10 bit consumer TV sets out there. We're talking well over$7500 here (FSI monitors are likely the lower end of this)... Any 1080p consumer plasma or LCD will have the pixel for pixel spec... but the small ones are pretty awful I think. Smallest I've seen that would have that part of the spec that are OK are those 32" sets. FWIW too, plasmas will show you a better rendition of your black levels. Got a wall you could mount it on?

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer, Producer, Writer, Director Editor, Gun for Hire and other things.

8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17" MBP, Matrox MXO2 with MAX Cinema Displays


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Glenn HughesRe: Which HDMI Monitor?
by on Jan 8, 2010 at 5:20:19 pm

Thanks for the great feedback Jerry. Both the Aquos and Brevia have 10-bit listed in their spec and yes I do have a wall but who the hell wants to sit 24" from a 32" or 40" screen? Apparently people do because this forum has a number of folks who use these monitors - and larger. And with a 23" ACD and 15" JVC SD box in front of me I don't really want that additional giant screen. It's funny too how folks always ask your budget. A truly legitimate question, but would I be buying a $450 SD monitor if I had a budget of $7500? Probably not. Uh, make that DEFINITELY not.

I did do a color grading last year on a pro system (a friend's) and it looked great, until I watched it on my father's and grandmother's Best Buy LG TV's - and it looked like HELL!! about 30% of my audience watches my work on stuff like that, about 60% watch it on the web and the final 10% watch in theaters projected with SD projectors (although more theaters are getting HD)so I don't really have a need - or desire - to grade on anything other than what my audience will be viewing with. I know that opinion invites a LOT of criticism from the pro group here that feels if you can't spend $10k on a monitor for color grading then you should be working at Wendy's.

I'm gonna go with the the JVC TMH150CGU SD monitor, see how it looks, and continue shopping/taking suggestions for an HD one. Thanks again!


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Michael BlackmanRe: Which HDMI Monitor?
by on Jan 9, 2010 at 9:51:15 pm

I am in the same situation as you are. Have you thought about the Dell U2410 Ultra Sharp LCD?

I am having issues as well with the 1:1 pixel mapping on a consumer LCD. I, like you, only saw that feature clearly stated on the Sony 32" Brevia. I am currently looking at some smaller Samsungs but the 1:1 pixel mapping may be a challenge.

Any updates?

Michael


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Glenn HughesRe: Which HDMI Monitor?
by on Jan 10, 2010 at 10:30:00 pm

I've not considered this monitor because its native resolution is 1920 x 120, not 1920 x 1080 which is what MXO2 requires. I've order a JVC TMH150CGU 15" Color Production Monitor and will wait on the HD LCD depending on my results. I'll let you know what I find. Keep me posted also!


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Andy MeesRe: Which HDMI Monitor?
by on Jan 11, 2010 at 12:50:58 pm

Glen

The MXO2 requires a monitor that can natively support a 1920x1080 input and display it at a 1:1 resolution ... the Dell U2410 & HP DreamColor are both native 1920x1200 panels that can properly handle the MXO2's 1920x1080 output.

Fwiw, the main issues that seem to trip folks up tends to be when they use an HDMI driven 1920x1200 display that does not support 1:1 pixel mapping and so the image gets stretched, or when they try to use a DVI driven 1920x1200 display and then try to feed that from the MXO2 via an HDMI to DVI convertor, which does not work as it is expecting a different resolution on that input.

Hope that helps
Andy


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Glenn HughesRe: Which HDMI Monitor?
by on Jan 11, 2010 at 3:30:06 pm

Thanks so much Andy. I've been reading all your posts on this matter and you're quite helpful. I'm going to take your word on this as you obviously know what you're talking about, but the confusion for those of us with less understanding of all the specs on these monitors has mainly been - at least for me - the fact that we're looking for a 1920 x 1080 monitor with 1:1 pixel mapping and so many of these monitors state in their specs (the Dell U2410 for example) "Optimal resolution: 1920 x 1200" To me, that doesn't necessarily mean that it'll display 1920 x 1080 correctly, and Matrox states "NATIVE resolution" of 1920 x 1080. But you're saying that if the monitor can do 1:1 pixel mapping then it should be able to display 1920 x 1080 without distortion with no problems. However, I have YET to find a monitor spec online (and I've been looking for two weeks) that uses the term "1:1 pixel mapping." I know in a previous post you said:

"with the Toshiba Regazza I mentioned in the thread above its called "Exact Scan Mode", on Sony's Bravia models its called "Full Pixel" mode, Mitsubishi appear to call it Tru1080p™ mode etc etc..."

I don't see anything in the Dell specs (looking at Dell's website) that even remotely looks like it references 1:1. (And how would I know that "Exact Scan Mode" or Tru1080p™ is the same as 1:1 pixel mapping if you hadn't told me?) I'm taking your word on it, I'm sure you're right, but that's where the confusion is coming in for us folks looking for a compatible model. Also, I see the Dell lists "Internal Processing: 12 bits" so, uh excuse my ignorance, but that means this can handle the 10-bits from the MXO, right?

Boy, I wish I understood all these specs more, I'd just create a post that said "Here are 5 monitors that have all the specs required by the MXO2 LE..."

Someday, once I have this all hooked up and working I'm going to be answering these same questions for others and I'll sound like an expert, but for right now I'm just another rookie trying to move up from a MacPro with an ACD to something more professional (and now I've invited comments from the pros here who are going to say "If you don't have $7K for a monitor then go back to busing tables!")

Thanks again!


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Andy MeesRe: Which HDMI Monitor?
by on Jan 11, 2010 at 4:36:25 pm

No worries Glenn

But you're saying that if the monitor can do 1:1 pixel mapping then it should be able to display 1920 x 1080 without distortion with no problems.

Basic compatibility depends on the input source used really, if its HDMI or any other standard professional or consumer HD or SD video input (like HD/SD-SDI, Component or Composite etc) then standard video resolutions such as HD's 1920x1080 signal should be supported as such a signal would be expected on those inputs and should hence be dealt with accordingly (else those input ports would/should not be present). With the HP DreamColor or Dell U2410's HDMI or Component inputs you should be fine with a standard HD signal, but if you ran the same MXO2 output signal through an HDMI to DVI convertor and in to the monitors DVI input then the monitor probably would not respond correctly if at all. Regarding the 1:1 pixel mapping, this setting guarantees no scaling being performed by the monitor on the incoming signal eg it ensures you won't get an unwanted overscan applied to the image which might cause a softening of detail on the display and cropping of edges of the displayed image, or if your monitor is 1920x1200 it ensures the image will not be scaled to the monitors full height with consequent edge cropping to reduce the width.


I don't see anything in the Dell specs (looking at Dell's website) that even remotely looks like it references 1:1.

Yeah, sometimes you have to really dig to find the info . Heres a link to the online manual where you can dig down to the various Display Settings (it notes "Wide Mode" can be toggled between 1:1, Aspect and Full Screen): http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/MONITORS/U2410/en/ug/operate.htm.


Also, I see the Dell lists "Internal Processing: 12 bits" so, uh excuse my ignorance, but that means this can handle the 10-bits from the MXO, right?

Actually its physically only an 8 bit panel (so it can only display 16.7 million colors cat any given instant) but it is processing incoming signals at 12 bit accuracy (so it can accept a 10 bit signal without throwing away data before you even start) and it displays the subsequent image from a full 10 bit color palette (ie 1.07 billion colors). Here's a link to a nicely balanced online review with good tech details: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2410.htm

Note: you mention "10-bits from the MXO, right?" .. be careful here, as we are talking about an MXO2 not an "MXO" (which is an entirely different device). I mention this only as this can really confuse other folks who wander by researching their own needs and can get confused between the different products (for example, the original MXO is only an 8 bit device, not 10 bit capable like the MXO2).

Best
Andy


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Glenn HughesRe: Which HDMI Monitor?
by on Jan 11, 2010 at 5:11:22 pm

Thanks again Andy, you are REALLY incredibly helpful. And you're right about being clear. I have an MXO2 LE, not an MXO, and I do understand the difference between the two. I'll make sure I'm clear on that in the future.


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