Re: Is the COW heating up? by marisu fronc on Jun 26, 2008 at 7:20:26 pm
Lyn-
I don't know if the Cow is heating up - but my tiny office sure is, it's just too damn hot to work inside and too damn hot to train outside . . . I'm reinventing the siesta these days ;)
dept of idle chit chat by Bob Cole on Jun 27, 2008 at 3:01:50 am
Dunno why, Lyn. Anyway, let me add to the noise. Here is something that I saw in today's NY Times.
"Some Postproduction Pizazz for the Digital Video Artist"
A story follows, about Pinnacle Studio 12 and its included templates that allow the home video producer to create home movies with a Hollywood feel. Includes, along with the inevitable templates, Red Giant Magic Bullet looks, burning to Blu-ray discs, etc.
What, you may ask, does this video-editing/Blu-ray burning/Magic Bullet / chroma-keying etc. version run? $130 (& free shipping)
And I've been debating buying Magic Bullet for $400. (I know, not the same software, but still....)
What's Avid telling us with this product?
Actually, PP or FCP are really in the same order of magnitude as Pinnacle, compared to the old Media Composer price structure.
Bob C
MacPro 2 x 3GHz dualcore; 10 GB 667MHz
Kona LHe
Sony HDV Z1
Sony HDV M25U
HD-Connect MI
Betacam UVW1800
DVCPro AJ-D650
Re: Is the COW heating up? by Steve Wargo on Jul 1, 2008 at 11:14:21 pm
It costs to much to drive anywhere so we sit at the computer and play mind games with each other, swap lies, brag about non-existent jobs, and other such dribble. Just kidding.
By the way, we just got the green light from Lionsgate on a $90 million documentary about Autodesk/Discreet and how they pulled off the biggest screw-up in the 75 year history of Non Linear Editing, who was responsible and how it was all caused by Media 100. It will star Leonard Nimoy as Attila the Hun and Charlize Theron as his Sister Theresa. There will be a cast of thousands unless we get Apple involved with their 1,000,000 seats of FCP. The credits will run three hours.
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!
Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .
Re: Is the COW heating up? by Del Holford on Jul 2, 2008 at 12:42:34 pm
Is Lionsgate looking for investors? I could sell my SGI Octane 2 and Onyx 2 and invest the profits. Then maybe I could afford a new smoke. As it is we'll probably become Apple seats 1,000,002 & 1,000,003 whenever we can spring the money from the budget this new fiscal year.
BTW - what happens in Tempe when the dry heat hits 120 degrees? My documentary on southern Sudan shows the host holding an outdoor thermometer showing 121 degrees. That seems a bit warm to be outdoors but the locals don't seem affected.
Del
fire*, smoke*, photoshopCS3
Charlotte Public Television
del underscore edits at wtvi dot org
Re: Is the COW heating up? by Steve Wargo on Jul 2, 2008 at 3:01:59 pm
We consider anything under 100 to be sweater weather. It's been over 110 every day for some time now. When it's over 110, it's hard to breath. The lungs don't like that incoming furnace level temperature.
The first thing that is affected by high temperatures is the human brain. Does that explain anything?
By the way, part of the Lionsgate deal is that they want to buy both of our Discreet Edit* machines for what I paid for them. I told them they have been in storage for a few years so that would cost them extra.
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!
Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .
Re: Is the COW heating up? by David Roth Weiss on Jul 3, 2008 at 2:19:21 pm
[Del Holford]"As it is we'll probably become Apple seats 1,000,002 & 1,000,003 whenever we can spring the money from the budget this new fiscal year."
Del,
Just so you know the kind of company you'll be keeping when you make your move...
The other day I actually had a kid over at the FCP Forum argue that, as he put it, "film was the first NLE." I tried to explain that editing film was actually not non-linear, but in fact linear, and I went on to explain the difference, including a technical explanation of random access, etc. He continued to dispute the point and never would accept that there was a difference between the two.
So, you're soon going to be hob-knobing with kids who will not know that life ever existed without the iPhone. Can you handle it?
David
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
Re: Is the COW heating up? by Eric Addison on Jul 3, 2008 at 11:47:05 pm
"The other day I actually had a kid over at the FCP Forum argue that, as he put it, "film was the first NLE." I tried to explain that editing film was actually not non-linear, but in fact linear, and I went on to explain the difference, including a technical explanation of random access, etc. He continued to dispute the point and never would accept that there was a difference between the two."
Please, oh please post a link to that - I LOVE reading stuff like that. As someone who learned to edit with B&W 16mm and Super 8, I love reading how the FCP kids know everything, and those of us over 35 know so little.
Re: Is the COW heating up? by Bob Cole on Jul 4, 2008 at 6:54:44 pm
[Eric Addison]""The other day I actually had a kid over at the FCP Forum argue that, as he put it, "film was the first NLE." I tried to explain that editing film was actually not non-linear, but in fact linear,"
It's a matter of opinion, granted, but I agree with the kid.
When I went from editing on a Steenbeck (and the all-important bin) to videotape, THAT felt a lot more "linear."
All that said, it's fun to discuss but I don't really care. In a sense not even NLEs are non-linear in the end result.
To the United-Staters in the forum, Happy 4th! And thanks to all the brave young men and women who put their lives on the line in the various services. I saw a bunch of them in the airport today, and wanted to thank all of them -- but they all just wanted to get home.
Bob C
MacPro 2 x 3GHz dualcore; 10 GB 667MHz
Kona LHe
Sony HDV Z1
Sony HDV M25U
HD-Connect MI
Betacam UVW1800
DVCPro AJ-D650
Re: Is the COW heating up? by David Roth Weiss on Jul 6, 2008 at 5:27:36 pm
[Bob Cole]"When I went from editing on a Steenbeck (and the all-important bin) to videotape, THAT felt a lot more "linear."
Bob,
The only part of editing film that is non-linear would be selecting shots or trims hung in the trim bin. That's it. Editing them into a show or a reel, viewing, etc., etc., etc. is all linear. While film does enable the editor to cut-in and extend the reel by inserting additional shots at random points along the linear film path, which tape to tape video editing does not allow, that makes film no less a linear medium.
On the other hand, NLE editing allows for random access of all source material once it's digitized, and it can be used to insert or over-record edits instantly at any random place on the timeline in a completely non-linear mode, and can be used to access or view any part of an edited project at random as well, though most users do tend to edit in a somewhat linear fashion while working along the linear timeline.
I suspect that if film were really non-linear, we'd still be editing film.
Plus, the so-called digital revolution is what truly enabled non-linear editing, so I feel completely confident and safe in saying that NLEs were the first NLEs, not film.
David
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
semantics by Bob Cole on Jul 6, 2008 at 11:50:57 pm
David, from your own words the only difference in accessing material in film editing vs. NLE is the method of grabbing the material, i.e. physically vs. electronically.
I'd agree that NLEs were MORE non-linear than film editing, especially when it comes to layering, etc.
But like I said... who cares? I'd be more interested in a discussion of the next features of NLEs. Didn't Avid announce with great fanfare some sort of system whereby the computer could turn a paper edit into a rough cut? Or did I misunderstand that? What happened with that idea?
Bob C
MacPro 2 x 3GHz dualcore; 10 GB 667MHz
Kona LHe
Sony HDV Z1
Sony HDV M25U
HD-Connect MI
Betacam UVW1800
DVCPro AJ-D650
[Bob Cole]"David, from your own words the only difference in accessing material in film editing vs. NLE is the method of grabbing the material, i.e. physically vs. electronically."
No... I didn't really say that... I said the only thing non-linear about film was the trim bin.
[Bob Cole]"I'd agree that NLEs were MORE non-linear than film editing, especially when it comes to layering, etc."
I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing.
[Bob Cole]"I'd be more interested in a discussion of the next features of NLEs."
Well, why not start that discussion? You're the one who wanted (unwisely I think) to debate the linear vs. non-linear aspects of film. I'd simply used it as an example of FCP Forum silliness for Del as he heads toward FCP land.
[Bob Cole]"Didn't Avid announce with great fanfare some sort of system whereby the computer could turn a paper edit into a rough cut?"
Avid has that capability and I think Premiere has a beta out of something similar too. I'm still not sure what that has to do with this thread, but it's a good topic for discussion.
David
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
Re: Is the COW heating up? by Lyn Norstad on Jul 7, 2008 at 7:57:41 pm
David -
You may remember that the early D-Vision PostSuite systems were marketed as "film style non-linear editing." Which they indeed were, and continued to be.
Of course, there are things you can do with computer data that you could never ever do with a physical element like film ... at least not in a non-destructive manner.
The earliest TouchVision products ... like Cineworks and D-Vision Pro were often called "non-destructive" film editors.
Regards,
Lyn Norstad
Chicagoland, USA
Co-host of CreativeCOW forums:
Discrete Edit*ors
Matrox Video Systems
Leitch dpsVelocity
Re: Is the COW heating up? by David Roth Weiss on Jul 7, 2008 at 8:38:21 pm
[Lyn Norstad]"You may remember that the early D-Vision PostSuite systems were marketed as "film style non-linear editing." Which they indeed were, and continued to be."
Sure!!! But, D-Vision was a true NLE. The young fella over at the FCP site (and my misguided friend, Bob Cole) were suggesting that "hands-on" old-style (Moviola, sync blocks, rewinds, etc.) film cutting, was somehow non-linear. That simply ain't the case.
BTW, D-Vision handled Flex files, Evertz files, and traditional EDLs as well as anything ever has...
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
Re: Is the COW heating up? by Ron Shook on Jul 2, 2008 at 3:16:11 pm
Steve,
[Steve Wargo]"the 75 year history of Non Linear Editing"
Blast you! You know how gullible I am and yet persist in raising my hopes, then dashing them and adding to my fears. It was only when I reflected on the above line that I realized that it only seems that long that my middle years of productivity have dribbled away. You are not to be trusted under the sun.
Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
CreativeCOW Forum Host for Discreet edit*
