I'm trying to figure out a more permanent HD file backup system/work flow, and I'd like a better sense of what other people are doing. Right now my "system" of backing up projects is pretty hodgepodge; I work off of one drive, then back everything up to another drive, then eventually archive the project and burn it to DVD. I rarely get to the last step, however, and drives keep filling up. Until now we will just buy new drives, but this stopgap method doesn't seem sustainable.
Would people recommend a RAID array of some kind, or a server? Any brands you'd recommend? Any advice on a permanent solution would be much appreciated.
Re: HD Backup Workflow by Bob Zelin on Oct 15, 2009 at 3:36:57 pm
I am becomming very sensitive to this subject, because of a LOT of drive failures at my clients.
Just because you spend - $5000 - $15,000 for a RAID 5 or RAID 6 array, doens't mean that you are not going to have a catostrophic failure, and lose all your data. This is NOT videotape. Drives fail.
A $15,000 fibre array is at the mercy of an $80 disk drive. You must have multiple redundant backups - this is why some people are willing to pay $8000 for a Cache LTO4A tape backup system. If you can't do this (becuase it's too slow, too small, and too expensive), then you MUST have multiple drive backups (never less than two) - or you are begging for trouble. For critical jobs, like a feature film shot on RED, for example, you backup, and again, and again. Is this a pain - you bet it is.
Re: HD Backup Workflow by Jeff Brown on Oct 16, 2009 at 3:58:13 pm
I have started using bare SATA drives for footage and media backup. There are many external boxes (eSATA is fastest) that will let you plug in a bare drive. I happen to use a swappable internal SATA mount that lets you slide in a bare drive, no rails or extra hardware needed.
Critical work gets backed up twice; I label my drives in A/B sets.
As Bob said, RAID 1 won't do the same-- a catastrophic failure will take out both drives. If you have irreplaceable work, I'd suggest a third and forth drive stored off-site. A good branded 500 MB drive is about $50 these days. You can even get nice plastic cases to hold bare drives on the shelf.
Re: HD Backup Workflow by Mark D'Agostino on Oct 16, 2009 at 7:51:34 pm
We take the same "bare" SATA approach as does Jeff. Our footage is first dumped from our FS100 firestore to a server and simultaneously backs up to a SATA inserted into the computer's SATA drive slot using a program called Syncback from 2BrightSparks.com. We pull the SATA and store them in a static free foam block with inserts cut for multiple drives. We also back up to blueray but like Grace we never seem to keep up with that step. Since we shoot with an HDX900 we have the luxury of simultaneously recording to HDDVCPro tapes for another instant archive. We have had to in a pinch grab a bare SATA and plug it externally into a computer to grab footage.For that we own a nasty looking adapter for the SATA that works beautifully and allows us to plug a "bare" SATA into any computer. It's a SATADockv4 from Wiebetech. This is a wordy way of re stating what Bob said "back up, and again, and again.
Re: HD Backup Workflow by Bob Zelin on Oct 17, 2009 at 11:39:12 pm
for the few people that read this (and there will be very few) -
there are no "good" drive solutions. Current disk drive techology sucks. If you use your drives in professional enviornments (meaning that you use them all the time), your drives will eventually fail. Some are better than others, but basically, disk drive technology is terrible, compared to videotape or film (for example). If you don't back up in some way, you will eventually be screwed.
Once SSD becomes cheap, large, and readily available, we will look back on rotating platter disk drive technology, and say "did we really rely on that ?".
Re: HD Backup Workflow by Mads Nybo Jørgensen on Oct 17, 2009 at 11:57:49 pm
Hey Bob,
Hear, Hear!
You are so right - sadly there is a large number of hard-ware sales people who would currently try and make you believe otherwise.
I recently advised a client to stay away from Sony EX (even if the sales guy thought that it looked as good as a RED camera) and Panasonic P2 because of the cost of storing the media. Better off either going HDV or hire XD-CAM or HD-Cam until a secure and cost effective method of storage has been released.
All the Best
Mads
London, UK
Mac Million Ltd. - HD Production & Editing
Please watch our Showreel here: http://reels.creativecow.net/film/1145
Blog: http://macmillionltd.blogspot.com
Re: HD Backup Workflow by Tim Kolb on Oct 18, 2009 at 2:38:13 am
[Bob Zelin]"Once SSD becomes cheap, large, and readily available, we will look back on rotating platter disk drive technology, and say "did we really rely on that ?"."
It's true. It's amazing that we yearn for the robustness of storing our rarely backed up work product on some metal or oxidized metal particles glued to a thin sheet of polymer...
my thoughts... by Steve Wargo on Oct 18, 2009 at 3:51:36 am
Sony has functioning 100GB BluRay discs in the lab. We bought a SONY XDCAM disc drive thinking we could back up to cartridges but 50Gb disca sre $60 and simply not available. If we could back up to 100GB discs, that would do it for now. The LTO tape thing is fine for long term storage of projects but access is somewhat limited. We had 3 AIT tape drives (at $3k apiece) and have dozens of projects backed up the that. All of that is useless right now.
TDK promised 200GB BluRays a few years ago and that is all but completely forgotten.
And then, there was Halogram 4 TB discs in development. Where is that?
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!
Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .
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Re: my thoughts... by Joey Burnham on Oct 20, 2009 at 1:10:49 am
D5 and HDSR seem to work fine for me! I would never trust sensitive material on a drive. Have had 2 total RAID failures in the past 5 years and thank god we weren't keeping mastered material on there. Our raids are for curren working media storage only. Once the master is out the door we keep a clone hard copy and vault it.
Joey
Re: HD Backup Workflow by Greg Pilon on Oct 20, 2009 at 5:01:48 pm
Right now I need speed and in this Az market right now I am going to spend my money in other areas besides a raid solution, so I am going to do a internal software raid, and play the backup game. What drives would you recommend and app to use. Is the disc utility app that comes with mac good, and should I look and server grade class of drives to help prevent a crash? Thanks Greg
