Setting up a new system

	Re: Setting up a new system by Mads Nybo Jørgensen on Sep 29, 2009 at 5:47:56 am Hey Jake, In short you want a full on HD multi-camera studio with all the cabling and mixing and streaming hardware/software for $25,000? Sorry mate, but you need a miracle (This is me being very gentle). Either ask for more money or reduce your expectations. Since you already have a powerful Mac I am assuming that you maybe also have a camera or two? It would be good to know what other equipment you have? But you should consider starting with just 1 camera that can do the live streaming - something like a HDV camera should be fine (Canon, JVC, Panasonic, Sony Z or EX model). If you can afford it, buy two cameras and use the second for inserts after the service into the main programme. Alternatively, ask for more money and buy a Newtek Tri-Caster with whatever cameras that you can afford to fit the budget. Good Luck All the Best Mads London, UK Mac Million Ltd. - HD Production & Editing Please watch our Showreel here: http://reels.creativecow.net/film/1145 Blog: http://macmillionltd.blogspot.com Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Setting up a new system by Micah McDowell on Sep 29, 2009 at 9:18:52 pm I think the Tricaster would be a good choice for you as well; it can broadcast directly to the web, playback and record video internally so no need for DVDs for in-service videos, so it is for the most part a studio in a box... connect cameras, preview monitors, a deck to output to, and you're done. I work at a church and that's our setup. Currently, the Tricaster is SD only (HD version is due to be released before the end of the year, but it will be more money for sure). Are you sure you NEED HD right now? HD might be overkill for the web and with your budget, it'll be hard to do. You said you want to do a local TV broadcast. Is the station broadcasting in HD? If not, what are their delivery requirements? This is what you need to meet, so find out if they need Beta SP/MiniDV/DVCPro or whatever format, since you may need to factor a deck into your budget. The RED Scarlet will doubtless be a great camera, and I'm looking forward to it too, but the REDs are geared toward film-style production and would be somewhere between awkward and useless for broadcast multicamera TV like what you need. To fit in your price range and have nice quality, you might want to consider shopping around for good used SD gear, since there's tons of it right now. Get a couple nice cameras (maybe some well worn JVC GY-DV500s or similar; that's what we use and they're often under a grand apiece on eBay and very reliable). If you can squeeze better cameras like Sony EX3s into your budget, then do it by all means, but I think you'll find it difficult. Then get a Tricaster, broadcast monitors, a deck if necessary, cables, good tripods with heavy duty, GOOD heads (we use Vintens), maybe an audio board to mix for TV, and you've got the beginnings of something. You could use your very nice Mac and the Canon for other production needs; you can actually edit on a Tricaster but I would much prefer Final Cut Pro and After Effects for what I'm usually doing (editing and motion graphics). Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Setting up a new system by Mads Nybo Jørgensen on Sep 29, 2009 at 11:16:34 pm Hey Jake, The only thing that I can add to Micah's comments is that I believe that Tricaster will for a certain period, depending on which model you purchase, offer you a very competitive upgrade path to the HD version - which is due out Q4 this year. Otherwise I would follow the advice of someone who is doing the same as you intend to do. There are no right or wrong - it is all about budget and ambitions. All the Best Mads London, UK Mac Million Ltd. - HD Production & Editing Please watch our Showreel here: http://reels.creativecow.net/film/1145 Blog: http://macmillionltd.blogspot.com Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Setting up a new system by Bob Zelin on Sep 29, 2009 at 11:15:17 pm Mads is correct of course, you need a miracle. The very fact that you are wishing for a Red Scarlet shows your innocence in what this product is, and what it can do. This is not a video camera designed for multi camera production with a video switcher. It is a 3K video camera, whose signal must be transcoded (via software like Red Rushes, Red Alert, etc.) into a usable format for conventional video. Your desire to use this camera as part of a multi camera production system for a church service indicates your background in doing this. Based on this, I can tell you that you are setting yourself up to be sold "a cat in a bag" by a devious salesperson who will just take your money, and run. The Tricaster is a LOW END SYSTEM, and even ones considered junk by professionals - are expensive (like the Panasonic AV-HS400). When you setup a production system, you will need tripods, legs, lights, an intercom system with headsets, as well as the production switcher, audio mixer, microphones, cabling, HD TV monitors, as well as HD recording devices (even if it's low end - anything from an HDV VTR to a FCP edit system that can record the signal directly to hard drive). Count up all of these pieces - all of these items add up to a LOT of money - and it's not just the money - it takes skill and knowlege on how to setup and operate all of this equipment, and then produce a finished show, that can be distributed to your congretation. Look for professional help that you can trust. You won't get complete answers on a user forum like this. bob Zelin Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Setting up a new system by Bob Zelin on Sep 30, 2009 at 2:19:37 am if you have a limited budget, and you must be HD, it is my suggestion that you abandon any hope of running a switcher, with a switched feed, and work with iso HD cameras, and a nice FCP edit system. All of this can be done for way under 25 grand. You will get wonderful quality, and produce the exact show that you expect. If you get a camera like a Sony HVX-200, and a nice FCP edit system with an AJA Kona LHi card, and a nice big Panasonic Plasma display (and the assorted accessories, like a mixer, speakers, black generator, disk drive storage), you will be UNDER budget, and still have a wonderful camera, and a wonderful edit system, and still be able to produce professional quality shows in HD. You can't accomplish the world for 25 grand -nor should you try. Do with the budget that you have to work with, and as you succeed, and your shows become successful, you will get more budget allocated to you, and then you can expand your system - and eventually have the multiple GOOD QUALITY cameras and switchers that you need to do what you really want. Always buy good gear - not consumer junk. Bob Zelin Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Setting up a new system by Steve Wargo on Sep 30, 2009 at 4:17:22 am You are begging for problems. Steve Wargo Tempe, Arizona It's a dry heat! Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck 5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck 2-Sony EX-1 HD . Ask me how to Market Yourself using Send Out Cards Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Setting up a new system by Steve Wargo on Oct 1, 2009 at 6:46:41 am [Jake Schumacher] "Please elaborate" Hi Jake It seems like you're trying to do everything with little money. An HD switcher starts around $8k Cameras can be cheap to pricey. you could mix cameras and have cheap ones for stationary shots and something with a real lens for your close-up/follow camera. you also have to record to something. you need to find a local genius to help you and then come back with a real equipment list. The catch is that you'll need some long cable runs and that is tough to do with component so you should have HD-SDI and that costs money. In other words, you could pull this off with some research, careful shopping and a bit of a compromise. Good Luck Steve Steve Wargo Tempe, Arizona It's a dry heat! Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck 5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck 2-Sony EX-1 HD . Ask me how to Market Yourself using Send Out Cards Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Setting up a new system by Micah McDowell on Oct 1, 2009 at 6:02:46 pm It certainly doesn't make it a complete fraud... there's many cameras that work that way, and relatively few have been "true" 1080 until recently. Resolution isn't the biggest factor necessarily. Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Setting up a new system by Tim Kolb on Oct 2, 2009 at 12:19:17 pm Unless you have money to start playing with the big boys, talk of "fraud" is probably going to keep you from making any move at all... The Scarlett you started talking about will likely use a Bayer sensor like the RED One, which is structured to gather a half-res green image and a quarter res blue and a quarter res red image and combine them to create a full resolution image... The HVX200 has a 960x540 sensor that is used to make a 1280x720 image that is reduced to 960x720 when it's recorded, or is ineterpreted all the way up to 1920x1080 and is reduced to 1280x1080 before recording. HDV on the Canon or Sony end is really a 1440x1080 image played out as 1920x1080...and it's MPEG...but hey, it's HD for the same bitrate as DV. HDV on the JVC is still MPEG, but it's used most often to record 720p material, and its sensor is 1280x720...maybe the least "fraudulent" of the bunch...and even if it does interpolate up to 1080p, it's much closer than the HVX is... The bottom line is that you need to be realistic when you're looking at your options. Your total budget is about 1/3 to 1/4 the cost of a professional HD camera body (without a lense) like the F950 or the Panasonic 3700. Trying to avoid compromise won't get you anywhere. The only reason you can even have this conversation is that manufacturers have made some compromises and made technology very affordable. However, don't waste much time looking for something that will "hold its value", in our business with our equipment, an automobile looks like a good long-term investment. Technically, you can always find some way that a piece of equipment makes a compromise. 1080p uncompressed is great! ...but even with your nice Mac, I don't know if you've got the stuff to store or even playback 7.5 Gigabytes per minute of video. So...image compression is another compromise that makes the data manageable. I like Bob's idea of going with separate cameras and editing the thing afterward. Switching cameras with HDMI or FireWire is a pain with long cable runs, not to mention that camera synchronization is impossible. The TriCaster idea is OK if you're going straight to the web...otherwise it's completely incompatible with your Mac...it's a PC based system. As others have said, this is a tall order on the budget you've stated. TimK, Director, Consultant Kolb Productions, Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Setting up a new system by Tim Kolb on Oct 19, 2009 at 3:57:22 pm [Jake Schumacher] "is there anything we are not seeing on the specs of the EX3? Do you know what processor this camera is using?" Processor? It has 1/2" sensors...that's a nice feature in a camera this small. I'd guess (I haven't even researched it) that the JVC is considerably less expensive TimK, Director, Consultant Kolb Productions, Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Setting up a new system by Petteri Evilampi on Sep 30, 2009 at 1:21:02 pm Here is my suggestion: take 3 of these: http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?display... and then this: http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?display... and feed camera and audio signals to one of these: http://www.datavideo.info/en/product_categories.php?catID=1 and use your existing MAC to record direct to hard drive. VÓILA!! Here you have 3 camera HD "studio" system you can operate ALONE!! And the price is around your budget! Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Setting up a new system by Micah McDowell on Sep 30, 2009 at 2:35:47 pm Those motorized pan/tilt systems are a neat idea, but you'd need to try them out first. I was at a church a couple weeks ago that had three Sonys on Fujinon automated pan/tilt heads. They worked great most of the time, but if the speaker started moving quickly on stage they couldn't always keep up smoothly. I can't imagine that those little Panasonics are the greatest quality for $8K either. Jake, it looks like you need to balance some of your needs with your budget... If you NEED HD and NEED live streaming ability, it's probably not going to happen on your budget. If you NEED the streaming but can live on SD, just get the Tricaster setup, it'll do fine. If you NEED HD but can live with editing the show together after the fact (so nothing truly "live"), I'd go with something like what Bob Zelin suggested earlier. Get some Panny HVX200s or Sony EX3s as the budget allows, iso record to cameras, and put together a nice edit system with the Mac you already have. The finished show will look better than the other options and you'll be within budget. Before you blow any money though, you should find some professionals in your area to help you put this all together... you can't learn everything from a free web forum, even if it is the COW. Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index