Offline down convert TC issue
by Jahil Maplestone
on
Nov 4, 2008 at 12:31:30 am
I have a HDCAM SR 24Psf master and need to make a DVCAM with matching Timecode and Burn in for an offline trailer edit.
1- can someone explain to me the capabilitites of the TC convertor in an SRW-5800. Like am i able to convert 24 to 30 LTC and still display the original 24Psf burn in etc?
&
2- Does anyone know the correct setup in the menu?
I am using the Frame convert out of the SR to get to 1080i 60 then i am running through a leitch x75 to convert to ntsc but can't seem to get the code to match properly. I can get a burn in TC up but it doesn't match and I can't get the TC out to convert so that the DVCAM deck can read it.
I'm assuming that I have not configured it properly but don't want to spend hours figuring it out if its not possible.
Re: Offline down convert TC issue by Mads Nybo Jørgensen on Nov 4, 2008 at 4:10:35 pm
Dear Jahil.
It is bang out of order telling Steve off for not giving you the answer you desire due to him not reading you proporly - and then tell Mike that you were not clear in your post.
There is plenty of other sand-boxes around for to throw your toys out off - if you can afford a £75K VTR, then you should also be able to afford the training that goes with it.
And Steve is right - it ain't gonna work having a 30fps timeline with a burned in 24fps timcode. You need to re-think that one to something that is more manageble by the NLE. But this information is only important to you if you are interested in your client's workflow and end result?
All the Best
Mads
London, UK
Mac Million Ltd. - HD Production & Editing
Please watch our latest video on Data Protection at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVyv_lTywwc
Blog: http://blog.myspace.com/bigflopproductions
Re: Offline down convert TC issue by Jahil Maplestone on Nov 4, 2008 at 4:34:52 pm
I don't think thats out of order at all. Steve's reply wasn't helpful at all. It was an obvious attempt at ridiculing my post. If he makes posts like that I'm assuming he's thick skinned enough to take some criticism of it.
Again, It is not a time line issue. This is a common process for off-lining film projects and i was hoping someone could help me with the setup. I have a lot of experience with this deck but not with the TC conversion feature.
As far as the 24 TC in 30 timeline you and steve refer to this is adjusted with the pull down added by the TC convertor.
No disrespect to you Mads. You've helped me in the past and I appreciate your opinion.
Re: Offline down convert TC issue by Mads Nybo Jørgensen on Nov 4, 2008 at 5:06:35 pm
Hey Jahil.
No Problem - but I still think you were slightly harsh on Steve - he does know one or two things about this subject...
However, am I correct to think that you are referring to key-code and that you want to treat the 24fps as such in vision?
To be honest, I've never done it in HD - so I can't help you, but there must be an old key-code inserter some where that will take the TC and super-impose it in the picture. If it was me, I would look through some of the Evertz boxes - maybe the 5150 Analog Afterburner can do the trick?
http://www.evertz.com/products/5150
All the Best
Mads
London, UK
Mac Million Ltd. - HD Production & Editing
Please watch our latest video on Data Protection at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVyv_lTywwc
Blog: http://blog.myspace.com/bigflopproductions
Re: Offline down convert TC issue by Jahil Maplestone on Nov 4, 2008 at 5:30:24 pm
Thanks Mads,
Yeah it is basically like that. If i'm correct in thinking the 5800 will display the original TC with duplicate frames TC representing the pull down for the new 30fps code. In fact I've read that its possible to have the pull down added TC code feeding the deck and then dual TC displays burnt in with the original 24fps TC with the duplicate frames as well as the 30fps tape TC for cross referencing. Similar to a telecine output.
I have a horatio TC display device that will display the code but i believe its possible to do it all in deck which is my ultimate goal. That and it still doesn't give me matching tape TC(with pulldown I know it won't match exact).
Apologies to Steve if it was harsh. If he does know a one or two things about this his help would be definitely appreciated.
Re: Offline down convert TC issue by Jahil Maplestone on Nov 4, 2008 at 6:16:47 pm
Ok so I have the answer for future people reading this thread. Its not possible with 24fps TC. The device(SRW-5800) only handles 23.98 TC conversion to 29.97. I suspected this but was looking for confirmation.
Anyone know if there is an external device that can convert 24Psf to 29.97 out there? I'm aware that there is a much easier way to deal with this problem but clients have strange workflows sometimes.
You jerk! by Steve Wargo on Nov 4, 2008 at 8:08:28 pm
Maybe you should ...
Those of us at the top of the page read hours of posts trying to help people. Yeah, we we don't sit and dwell on all of the details. And once in a while we miss something. You can bet I will never make an effort to help your sorry ass again.
I got a text message from someone in Australia on this forum at 10pm on a Sunday night asking for help with a Sony remote for an F-900. I dug my book out and sent him all of the info and saved him a lot of trouble. That's what we do at no pay.
Had I realized that you were an unappreciative zero, I would have never bothered. You could complain about me to the big boss but he will plant you in your place much deeper than I ever would.
Have a crummy day.
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!
Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .
Re: Offline down convert TC issue by Mike Zimbard on Nov 4, 2008 at 3:21:29 pm
I'm a big believer in not changing your editing time-base if you don't need to. Instead of of dumping to DVCAM why not just bring in your SR footage in an offline HD format for the edit? That way when you go back to conform, all of your timecode is 1:1 and you don't have any conversion headaches.
A few years ago when we were working on our first HD jobs I used to downconvert from HDCAM to digibeta and do my offline at 29.97 SD. While the conforms always went fine there were always extra steps involved. Once DVCPROHD was released we began doing all of our off-lines in that codec which kept everything perfectly clean when conforming later to Uncompressed 10-bit. It would also keep intact any Final Cut filters/effects, etc that I used to lose when going the EDL route through Cinema Tools. Not sure what system you're working on, but you should be able to find a solution that will work to keep your off-line at 23.976. Just my $.02, but I feel this is a much easier workflow.
Re: Offline down convert TC issue by Jahil Maplestone on Nov 4, 2008 at 3:58:54 pm
Mike,
Thank you for your reply. This is not a question of changing editing time-base.
This is a duplication job for a client that wants to edit elsewhere. It is a HDCAM SR 24Psf master having NTSC DVCAM dubs made for offline. The SRW 5800 is capable of doing a TC conversion to the DF NTSC TC. When they edit they remove the pull down and still cut in 24Psf. Then we online from the SR masters.
If someone with experience on this type of thing could shed some light on it for me it would be greatly appreciated.
Maybe it isn't possible with the 5800, It may require an external convertor. Thats what I'm trying to find out.
Thanks again Mike for the speedy response. Sorry I probably wasn't clear enough in my original post.
