1080p LCD Monitors
by arbolito
on
Feb 19, 2007 at 6:13:21 pm
Hello All,
Our production company is on the hunt for a new LCD HD monitor that can handle 1080p footage and would be ideal for color correction. If anyone has any suggestions they would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Don't really want to upset you, but we've just had this discussion. So not to repeat too much, read through the last three months of headings, and you should find plenty of opinions on the subject of HD monitors.
All the Best
Mads
London, UK
Mac Million Ltd. - HD Production & Editing
Blog: http://blog.myspace.com/bigflopproductions
Caution by Steve Wargo on Feb 20, 2007 at 10:37:13 am
LCD monitors DO NOT support true 24 frame HD. But Plasmas do. We went into an Ultimate Electronics store with our F-900 and plugged our camera into their d/a to see what would work and what would not. All of the plasmas displayed a 24P image but none of the LCDs would do so.
Re: Caution by Bob Zelin on Feb 20, 2007 at 5:32:11 pm
Hi Steve -
the Sony SDM-P234b will scan at 48Hz, and will display a true 24p image with no issues.
This monitor has a DVI input only, and requires an AJA HDP or Blackmagic HD Link.
Of course, the entire Panasonic BT-LH series will do this as well, with no converters needed - all LCD.
Re: 1080p LCD Monitors by Tim Kolb on Feb 20, 2007 at 4:18:38 pm
Color correction...well, that's a tough one.
Anything other than a CRT or a 3 chip DLP has issues. Plasmas have darker blacks, but they tend to be a little mucky at the bottom end. LCDs have black levels that are typically too high (at least partially because the typical user has the brightness cranked).
Ecinema and Cine-Tal are two companies that have specially developed LCD displays that deal with the black issue and they each claim that their displays are capable of enough precision for color correction. They cost as much as an HD CRT would cost...which makes the decision harder for many who are looking.
Re: 1080p LCD Monitors by jimmybee500 on Feb 21, 2007 at 12:22:33 pm
Forgive my ignorance, I am an LCD virgin at present, but researching a forthcoming HD systems upgrade. I was looking at the Apple 23" Cinema display yesterday and the first thing that struck me was the text in the apple finder menu looks really badly anti-aliased (jagged). The guy said it was the coating on the screen, but that's rubbish.
I know you guys are talking about using LCDs as a broadcast monitor, not as part of your GUI, but is this fine pixellated look something consistent with LCDs or is it just because it was showing the OSX interface, rather than a pure HD video input?
Lastly (sorry) what is the merit, for a mograph artist/compositor, of using a HD-SDI broadcast style LCD for broadcast monitoring via HD-SDI and a Blackmagic/AJA board, rather than a domestic tv-type LCD or computer LCD via DVI/HDMI?
Sorry if that was a bit confused..I am just trying to understand the merits of difference processes of outputting a HD video signal and the resulting monitor quality. With SD video the only decent way to view on a CRT is with a Sony Broadcast monitor and a BMD/AJA card (which I have) but obviously the difference in price between an Apple display and a broadcast quality LCD is huge.
Thanks for your patience, any advice really appreciated.
Jim.
*Production Studio Premium / *Combustion 3
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Re: 1080p LCD Monitors by Tim Kolb on Feb 21, 2007 at 4:00:01 pm
[jimmybee500]"Sorry if that was a bit confused..I am just trying to understand the merits of difference processes of outputting a HD video signal and the resulting monitor quality. With SD video the only decent way to view on a CRT is with a Sony Broadcast monitor and a BMD/AJA card (which I have) but obviously the difference in price between an Apple display and a broadcast quality LCD is huge."
If it was truly a stupid question, there would be a much more clear-cut answer.
Using an HDSDI output allows you to run your signal through a legitimate off-board WFM/Vectorscope for image analysis. The scopes inside software aren't bad, but many feel that a dedicated and properly calibrated test instrument is all they want to trust. CRTs are most accurate for color...but they are incapable of showing the resolution of an HD picture...and they simply won't be manufactured shortly...simple as that.
With DVI, the issue becomes that it's an RGB signal...different color scaling than Y',Cr, Cb...and color correcting to that has potential to create some out of gamut colors...which you might not notice as you can't run a WFM/V off the DVI output...and you may not even have the picture on a CRT...heaven forbid...what in the world do we calibrate to???
Then there is the point that, since almost everyone will watch HD on a Plasma or an LCD...as well as a few on DLP...why shouldn't we color correct on an RGB display? Well...because the delivery system is still Y' Cr Cb and the stuff has to "fit in the pipe" so to speak.
Right now is a weird time for evaluation monitoring. CRTs are fading out before LCD technology is really completely ready to take their place (at this point. LCD has the best shot at being the next evaluation monitor imaging system as it is a continuous tone, analog display method).
I think that an incredibly painful investment in an HDSDI test instrument may be the best advice I can give someone. Monitoring is going to be a little dicey for 1-2 years yet I think...and having a spot-on test display may be the only way to truly know what you have.
Re: 1080p LCD Monitors by Bob Zelin on Feb 23, 2007 at 10:05:25 pm
this confusion will become worse, as we hit NAB 2007. Everyone will have the "best" LCD monitor, yet they all buy the same panels from LG and Samsung. Currently, on the hi end, you have eCinema and Teranex Clearview, but this does not mean they are the best - just the most expensive. I just saw the new JVC LCD's that are built to compete with the Panasonic BT-LH series, and they were teriffic. And Sony will introduce the "new and improved" Luma series. Now, the Apple Cinema with a HD Link or AJA HDP looks pretty good, but so does the direct input to the incredibly cheap Dell 2407WFP via HD analog component.
AND YOU KNOW WHAT - this will all change, again and again, all within 2007, and 2008, so no matter what you choose, your stuff will be outdated. So my advice is to simply jump in, and start making a living. Just don't spend too much money, because this ain't no 10 year investment, and in 2 years, what we think looks great will be crap.
And for those of you with an "old" Sony PVM 20M2U, 20M4U, or PVM20L5/1 - hang onto it for dear life.
Re: 1080p LCD Monitors by jimmybee500 on Feb 24, 2007 at 2:25:25 pm
So if you can afford it and while they're still available - go for a current multi-format SONY CRT as it will still garner the best picture currently?
I think we may go that way..one thing though, do the sony mutli-format CRTs struggle with SD video? I mean I'm sure I've heard somewhere that viewing SD footage on these HD monitors looks rubbish upscaled. I'm mainly talking about the 20" BVM-A20F1M.
What are the PVM series? Are they US versions of BVM, or an older range?
Thanks.
*Production Studio Premium / *Combustion 3
-------------------------------------
Win XP Pro SP2 / Intel P4 3GHz / 2GB RAM / GeForce FX5200 / DeckLink Pro / Sony BVM-20G1E / DVS SDI Clipstation / 110GB boot/80GB media/600GB RAID-0
Re: 1080p LCD Monitors by Tim Kolb on Feb 24, 2007 at 4:39:31 pm
A CRT should perform the best of any of the monitoring methods mentioned for up/down scale because of the way the picture is created on the tube face.
As far as PVM vs BVM, I'm not very versed on the differences. I do know if you want a Sony professional CRT that will accept HD signals via SDI, and you want a monitor with enough TVL (television lines) to do a respectable job, you'll have to write a pretty decent check.
In an HD suite, typically the three most expensive things are:
1. Test displays (WFM/VS),
2. Program Monitor, (if you get a really good one, this can easily move to #1)
3. Harddrive array if you intend to do any uncompressed HD editing...
Re: 1080p LCD Monitors by Jeff Brown on Feb 26, 2007 at 3:01:14 pm
AFAIK, the PVMs (of which i have a 14") are the "industrial" verson of the BVMs. Not quite as high-end, but some (not all) did have SMPTE-C phosphors and seem to be pretty reliable, build and color-wise.
I think Bob Z. has a good point-- LCDs look better every year. I fear we're at a point where not much gear can be bought thinking you'll have it 10 years down the road...
