OpenGl and 2K
by Ramona Howard
on
Apr 8, 2006 at 12:24:18 am
I will probably get blasted for this but hey, this is a serious question.
RaveHD now supports 2K, yeah.....BUT even better it now support 2K and OpenGl. Yes we can ingest a 2K and soon a 4K image and play the image out thru an Nvidia board...either during or after.....
We can change the image on the fly so the question is:
What would you like to see this app do?
We do have a list from our clients, now it's your chance to speak up.
Having not done the poll, I think that a majority of the people on this forum is mainly shooting SD or HD video, and would not consider using a Telecine. And if you read between the 'lines', most of the post production posts here are from FCP users.
Just for arguments sake, I can think of one or two NLE's that could take material from a Telecine - even if they are not of a certain manufacturer.
But Hey, I am happily staying in the HD world, even if that in some certain manufacturers mind doesn't cover anything above 1920*1080... ;-)
Wouldn't it be better to title your original post: What applications would you like for posting your telecine material?
And forget the rest of the sales blurb that are really not that relevant to the question?
Re: OpenGl and 2K by Tim Kolb on Apr 8, 2006 at 5:02:34 am
[Ramona Howard]"A NLE can't bring in images off a telecine, can it?"
I'm not sure what you're asking.
I have a dual Opteron running CineForm Prospect 2K with a PNY Quadro 4500 and a Dell 30" monitor...I handle 2K and have Open GL acceleration...I'm sure there must be other configurations that can also do this?
The 2K material would typically come in on disk...
Re: OpenGl and 2K by Ramona Howard on Apr 8, 2006 at 6:46:09 pm
We all know that an NLE can ingest 2K, but why in the world would you use an NLE for this part of the workflow was really the point.
You guys are missing something here.
The cow is made up of people from all workflow aspects. Not just the editor using FCP. Yes, most are but not all and many use software and hardware that may not fit into your workflow. If you don't use it, get or need it, don't respond. That would be like me getting in the middle of a FCP discussion. I don't use it or need it....
We are about listening to you, finding out what you want, need and will use and we tend to be a bit ahead of the curve when it comes to the standard NLE for the high-end workflow needs, as we are not dealing with companies that need an out of the box solution. This is an opportunity to say I would like to see a product do a specific function rather than us forcing it on you. I would like to think that if you find yourself using this product someday you would feel good that your comments were taken into considersation.
Get more out of this than marketing....In fact you won't even find mention of this on our website, well at least not yet.
The question was:
For the 2K images coming in, what would you like to be-able to do with the image on the fly or after. Scale, pan, etc...
A fairly simple question. Think of if as if a SR was capable of giving you this image, not from an NLE perspective.
[Ramona Howard]"We all know that an NLE can ingest 2K, but why in the world would you use an NLE for this part of the workflow was really the point."
To save money on another 'black box'?
[Ramona Howard]"We are about listening to you, finding out what you want, need and will use and we tend to be a bit ahead of the curve when it comes to the standard NLE for the high-end workflow needs, as we are not dealing with companies that need an out of the box solution."
You seem to continue to forget that this forum is not named the Specsoft 'Rave-HD' forum.
With all due respect, I have actually previously taken the time go through the information on your website, and from that decided that the product didn't fit my workflow. I've also noted that the product dosn't seem to have dealer channels in Europe (or most other places outside of Oakdale, US).
[Ramona Howard]"If you don't use it, get or need it, don't respond." So here is a question for the users of this forum: How many people here are using Ramona's "all singing no dancing" box?
In any case, your application question still doesn't make sense. Why, because there is a number of alternatives already delivering the functionalities that you want suggestions for.
(what would you like to be-able to do with the image on the fly or after. Scale, pan, etc...).
Either your R&D team should offer 10 alternatives and ask which one or three would have the best attraction to potential users? Or how about making something unique that no-one else is delivering? But please don't insult us with a half baked posting about how far the product is and how much you have listened to your current clients and then a question that are neither here or there.
BTW: Telecine is not the only application to get original 2K files from.
Re: OpenGl and 2K by Ramona Howard on Apr 8, 2006 at 8:15:20 pm
Mads,
The black box solution is needed in most of the multi-user workflows, especially if it's less expensive than say an AVID. FCP, Premiere and other out of the box solutions will not do everything needed at this level with the automation needed. Yes a single or few user facility can get away with the out of the box software, but eventually they need the black box, because the editors are doing what they are suppose to do....edit. I know you get this.
We have no need for dealer channels, we sell direct worldwide. Currently in Canada, Brazil, Japan, Germany, etc...The product is supported easily so we cut out the middleman. Why do you need a dealer?
I don't think you will find any users on this forum as we have only sold to fairly larger customers. Plenty have seen it though.
Or how about making something unique that no-one else is delivering? We do....take another look.
Re: OpenGl and 2K by Tim Kolb on Apr 11, 2006 at 5:02:12 am
[Ramona Howard]"The cow is made up of people from all workflow aspects. Not just the editor using FCP. Yes, most are but not all and many use software and hardware that may not fit into your workflow. If you don't use it, get or need it, don't respond."
Hmmm...yeah, sorry to post in your thread Ramona, I thought it was a public forum.
I'm still trying to get my arms around whether or not I am interested in this for my workflow should an appropriate project come up.
I think you assume we all have a clear idea of what Rave is in a very precise manner...I doubt that is the case. You and I have communicated on it, so I disqualify myself, but my post was to point out that if your original post was all I had to go on, I still wouldn't know exactly what the device is, or what it does for me...therefore it would be difficult to figure out what features are lacking.
Some of us MAY "need" it...but we don't "want" it because we don't "get" it...why don't you see if Ron and Kathlyn would allow you to write an article for the Cow...and "market" it?
Re: OpenGl and 2K by Ramona Howard on Apr 11, 2006 at 7:00:04 pm
Not my thread. Boy if we all thought that way I know a few people on here that would rip some heads off.....
Yes the product is a hard one to get it's head around and anyone who really gets it, give me a call, I will give you a job. It's not a traditional DDR or an NLE, therefore why do I need it is what usually comes up here. Think of it as all of the decks rolled into one. We can support all the formats, big whoop, so can an NLE. BUT this is a DDR that you get all of the solid slave and master RS422 controls, automation, reliability that a NLE won't always give. It's built to do specific tasks well, not everything under the sun.
Film workflows have their place and video workflows have their place. We simply bridge the gap between film and video in a more traditional film workflow concept. Uncompressed, no codec, framebased. In and out! in a DDR.
Take a look a Quantel, very similar but in a less complicated way and maybe without as many bells and whistles yet. Studios wanted simple! They got simple on the outside(the GUI) but the power is all still there. The bottom line they need rock solid performance 24/7.
Tim, it's all about the workflow and not all workflows need this(we are the first one to tell you this). I would invite anyone to come join us for a group demo at NAB, sit in with some of the studios that do need it and get a better understanding of what they are seeing in the product.
Writing articles is not our gig....code yes, nice words no. However, others have kind words they do put on paper now and then.
Now can we get back to the cool stuff we can do with OpenGL. It's the new toy and we are ready to start expanding the features.
Tim, thanks for keeping things honest. Technical people are not always the best people to present things in a broad way. Keep digging things will begin to make sense.
Re: OpenGl and 2K by Bob Bonniol on Apr 9, 2006 at 6:43:01 pm
OK Ramona, here's a direction that may not have occured to you:
Our studio uses HD and film images differently than almost everybody on these forums (check the website: www.modestudios.com). We use alot of solutions for creating media, but our needs get really kinky when we get into the live production enviroment. Ultimately all of our imagery is displayed at huge size, and thus quality is key. It also needs to be (potentially) altered, resized, affected, effected, reshaped, etc on the fly. So our playback requirements always need maximum quality throughput muscle, combined with flexibility, AND controllability. This means it must make itself available for operational control by other devices (say show control software, or live production control protocols, like DMX).
Oddly enough, this sort of device has been created and put into play by many of the lighting companys. For a look at this sort of device, and the market, check out the following: www.greenhippo.com (Hippotizer HD), www.highend.com (catalyst media server v4),http://prg.com/products/mbox (MBox Extreme Media Server). From the more broadcast side of suppliers, we often use devices like the Doremi V1HD, or QVis players. This has become rarer as the aformentioned platforms became more robust. I would suggest a quick google of lighting media servers, or lighting and video convergence to get a quick feel for what a HUGE market driving factor this has become in the last 2 years in the world of big concert, opera, TV, and theatrical production.
Just for instance: We just completed a production in London, Sinatra Live At The Palladium. It uses 9 moving screens, all odd aspect ratio, All existing within 1080 HD space at least, with 3 operating at 2k resolution. We utilize 10 dual discreet output devices (in this case customized Hippotizer HD units, all custom coded to be able to track the moving screens through space using data derived from the automation computers moving the screens, and with two modified for 2k throughput). This show will run for at least a year at the palladium, before doubling in size and moving to a Vegas Casino for an open ended run. That's alot of valuable playback devices being sold in one shot... You starting to get what I'm driving at ?
I see the potential for a RaveHD based OpenGL enabled playback device to have a place in our sort of market. The marketplace is very interactive, is agnostic of platform, and is extremely open source sympathetic. Many of the technicians and designers in big live production love to code their own tweaks into existing platforms to improve or differentiate their production value from others.
I'm more than happy to continue this discussion. Given the prevailing opinions regarding your thread here, I'm happy to do that via email if you want.
Cheers,
Bob Bonniol
MODE Studios
www.modestudios.com
Contributing Editor, Entertainment Design Magazine
Art of the Edit Forum Leader
Live & Stage Event Forum Leader
HD Forum Leader
Re: OpenGl and 2K by Ramona Howard on Apr 11, 2006 at 6:21:55 pm
Bob,
Thanks for the input that's exactly what I was looking for. RaveHD or "the black box" is like a DDR on steroids so making it do cool stuff is not as difficult as one might think.
altered, resized, affected, effected, reshaped, etc on the fly
Altered in what way? We can switch modes on the fly, anamorphic, etc...
We do not do effects but can handle LUTS, do you need more than that?
OpenGl support is still very much in it's infancy, that really hasn't been molded by any specifics yet. Well other than what our customers have asked for. It will be interesting to get other perspectives.
RaveHD is agnostic so with enough hardware power we can play out any image size that we can push thru the I/O and Nvidia boards.
control by other devices (say show control software, or live production control protocols, like DMX).
Right now we support Sony 9pin, so any external 9pin controller will do the job. I will do a bit of research on the protocols you speak of. If you have any information please feel free to forward them my way.
It's all about stretching beyond the box.....and it sounds like big live production and film studios have allot in common in some respects.
