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ATEM 1 vs ATEM TVS....input needed

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Scott FrancisATEM 1 vs ATEM TVS....input needed
by on Oct 16, 2011 at 2:55:18 am

Ok guys,

So I bought the ATEM TVS without realizing that the audio is NOT included in the switching unless it is input-ed via AES/EBU. This is a real pain. I also have seen some other shortcomings as well vs the ATEM 1 ME.
I am considering returning the TVS and getting the 1ME, BUT before I do and spend over double what I had intended, I need to know the following:
1) Are the analog input cables provided for the unit? (I see they are a non-standard input).
2) Is the component out switchable? Can you select your format as well for this, 1080p down to 480i/p? Or is this only the same as the input format like the HDMI/HD-SDI format? Can you output s-video from this as well?
3) Is the composite output active all the time, even when other outputs (both HDMI and Component) are used?
4) Does the analog input need to match the other input formats, or does the unit convert it to match? (As if I am using all 1080i cams via HDMI and HD/SDI and an s-video signal from a laptop or DVD player at a different resolution/format)
My concern is that I can have a backup and record out to DVD recorder for backup AND a reference copy. Also, if I need to have several outputs that can be used in case of a venue only supporting a limited amount of formats.
If so, the additional cost will be reasonable, vs buying all the additional converters to make the ATEM TVS workable....
I am amazed at how some of the BM products require so many other outside things to be an actual good buy.
Thanks for all the input in advance!
Regards

Scott Francis
Mind's Eye Audio/Video Productions


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Matt DrabickRe: ATEM 1 vs ATEM TVS....input needed
by on Oct 16, 2011 at 2:00:49 pm

1) Are the analog input cables provided for the unit? (I see they are a non-standard input).

You get a breakout cable with a pair of XLR inputs, a pair of XLR outputs and a pair of timecode I/O cables.

2) Is the component out switchable? Can you select your format as well for this, 1080p down to 480i/p? Or is this only the same as the input format like the HDMI/HD-SDI format? Can you output s-video from this as well?

I need to check on the component output, but I am pretty sure it is outputting what the unit it set to (1080i, 720p or 480i)

3) Is the composite output active all the time, even when other outputs (both HDMI and Component) are used?

Composite video is always available whether you are running the unit in HD or SD mode. Composite output is always available along with the HDMI and SDI output.

4) Does the analog input need to match the other input formats, or does the unit convert it to match?

Yes . . . you can't run the unit in HD and bring in an SD source. You need to add a converter to do this.

(As if I am using all 1080i cams via HDMI and HD/SDI and an s-video signal from a laptop or DVD player at a different resolution/format)

Matt Drabick,
DigiTek Systems


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Jim BrownRe: ATEM 1 vs ATEM TVS....input needed
by on Oct 16, 2011 at 2:43:09 pm

(As if I am using all 1080i cams via HDMI and HD/SDI and an s-video signal from a laptop or DVD player at a different resolution/format)

You should run the computer display through the HDI display port. If you computer outputs DVI-D then you will need a converter cable. We do this with a MacbookPro and get no degradation of the signal. You can also play the dvd in the computer. Avoid the composite input and s-video if at all possible.

Jim Brown


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Bob ZelinRe: ATEM 1 vs ATEM TVS....input needed
by on Oct 16, 2011 at 3:53:11 pm

Hi Scott -
I am going to give a general answer to your question (which is the same answer for many products) -

"If I spend $995 for product X, is that everything I need to spend ?"

Answer - NO !

This all makes me think of two analogies - the first was the original FCP advertisement, where they were competing against AVID.
"The $50,000 editing system - now $995". This was a complete lie. You got the FCP software for $995. It did not include the Apple computer, or the $300,000 in additional equipment that was shown in the Apple advertisement (which included a nice console, HD monitors, mixer, Sony Digi Beta VTR, etc.).

The second analogy is from a tech magazine joke for a tech support call - "I just bought this accounting software for $35 dollars, and it says on the box EVERYTHING INCLUDED - it didn't say anywhere that I needed a computer".


SO, my reply to your question - "does it include cables" - are you kdding me ? Do you think this is a VCR from Best Buy ? When have you ever bought ANY professional piece of equipment that includes cables ? The very definition of what WE do for a living is that we work with a LOT OF STUFF. Creative Cow exists because all of need A LOT OF STUFF to do what we do for a living. You bought a switcher - you need a computer, monitors, cables, audio, converters, etc, etc, etc. In the history of video switchers, there has NEVER EVER EVER been an item as inexpensive as the ATEM TV Studio. Blackmagic is INSANE for releasing a product at this low price point. If you went on ebay and bought a used switcher for even less money (good luck finding one on ebay for less money) - you would STILL NEED ALL THIS STUFF to make your system work. Unless you are in high school, doing a school project, I am shocked by your questions. YES, you need to buy more stuff - no different than if you bought a TriCaster, a Roland Edirol, a used horrible Videonics, or anything else lying around the back room of an old production company. NO ITS NEVER GOING TO INCLUDE CABLES - NOTHING EVER IS.

Bob Zelin



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Scott FrancisRe: ATEM 1 vs ATEM TVS....input needed
by on Oct 16, 2011 at 7:38:31 pm

Bob,
All I can say is you are an ass, and stop replying in a rude manner to honest questions. You are obviously a jaded old pro. I was asking if the proprietary cable's the ATEM 1 uses for audio, and looking at 5 sights as well as the BM website I found no answer if these were included. NO SHIT the normal cables are not included.
In regards to BM, they advertise items one way, only for you to find out afterwards something is not operational or included. NOWHERE on their site is there any mentioned that the audio is removed and not available from the HDMI or HD/SDI inputs. I understand that some things are going to be needed and not everything is plug and play. I was asking some questions to see if it is better to get the converters OR upgrade for my needs. You are obviously no help and only wish to beret people whom you deem underlings.....stay off the forums is you cannot e helpful in a positive manner.
Calling it as I see it!

Scott Francis
Mind's Eye Audio/Video Productions


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Scott FrancisRe: ATEM 1 vs ATEM TVS....input needed
by on Oct 16, 2011 at 8:01:28 pm

and apparently Bob.....they are included.......

Scott Francis
Mind's Eye Audio/Video Productions


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Bob ZelinRe: ATEM 1 vs ATEM TVS....input needed
by on Oct 18, 2011 at 1:29:17 am

I have previously posted on this forum that to get analog audio into the ATEM TVS AES/EBU input, the cheapest way to do this is with the Behringer SRC 2496, which will convert analog audio to AES/EBU.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=SRC2496&N=0&InitialSearch=yes

$163 at B&H Photo. This still makes the ATEM TVS an incredible purchase - no manufacturer - new or used, can come close to the price of the ATEM TVS.

Bob Zelin



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Dominik TwardowskiRe: ATEM 1 vs ATEM TVS....input needed
by on Oct 18, 2011 at 11:13:10 am

You can check spdif out ->> ATEM TVS AES/EBU input (?AES3id
inputs).
It is working for me on short cable.
I have Pc out spdif MAYA44 . After few days i can check TV One 1T-AP-216.
See http://www.rane.com/pdf/ranenotes/Interfacing_AES3_&_SPDIF.pdf

pozdr Dominik Twardowski


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Scott FrancisRe: ATEM 1 vs ATEM TVS....input needed
by on Oct 18, 2011 at 11:53:47 am

Thanks Bob,
I was looking at different options, from the one you mentioned, to using one of my digital mixers with aes/ebu. However having some of the other options for output on the ATEM 1 (such as a constant live composite output, to use to a DVD/DV recorder as a backup, analog A/V in/out, etc) are appealing. I have read at length on this forum as well as others to get the "real" answers on the nuts and bolts of these two items. You had a great post on the ATEM 1 a couple months backs, but gleaning info off of BM's website on the real facts of either one, is difficult, hence my post with detailed questions. I am considering on upgrading to the ATEM 1, and need to consider the cost vs other converters that I would need. Thanks for your input on options.
Regards

Scott Francis
Mind's Eye Audio/Video Productions


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Bob ZelinRe: ATEM 1 vs ATEM TVS....input needed
by on Oct 20, 2011 at 3:14:02 am

I am losing track of all the issues here.
The ATEM TV Studio takes an AES digital input, and you know very well that a digital audio board (Yamaha, etc) is expensive. The converter is the cheap way to go.

The ATEM 1ME has ANALOG AUDIO INPUT - you do not need any converters, so you can take the analog line out of a cheap Mackie, Soundcraft, or Behringer audio mixer right into the ANALOG inputs of tyhe ATEM 1ME, and it will just work. The ATEM 1ME audio appears on a 9 pin D connector, and Blackmagic supplies a very short 9 pin to dual XLR analog audio input cable for this - but of course, you will need TRS to XLR cables to go from your mixer line out into the ATEM 1ME audio inputs.

SO, if you have the ATEM TVS, yes, you need the converter for audio if you don't have a digital mixer (and who does in a low budget enviorment !).

HEY, when you do a real production shoot, even with the ATEM 1ME, do you really have 4 HDMI cameras - of course not - they are usually all SD-SDI or HD-SDI, so you are "stuck" buying the Blackmagic SDI to HDMI converters (except for when you use a MAC mini display port to HDMI cable for graphics, and playback into the switcher). AND I understand (AND I COULD BE WRONG HERE) that Blackmagic JUST DROPPED THE PRICE OF THE MINI CONVERTERS to $295 from $495 (I could be wrong, so don't blame me for incorrect rumors).

So is Blackmagic trying to "jack up the price" by selling you stuff that should be build in ? Who cares - it's so cheap compared to anyting else, that if they need a "little extra money" for the converters, it's still damn cheap to anything else on the market, or even ebay.

Bob Zelin



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