AJA HD10C2 to a JVC dvi monitor - what will I loose?

Hi Bryan,

It would be preferable to have an all-digital, full resolution workflow for maximum quality output to your monitor. You don't have to break the bank to achieve this. Here's a workflow which might work for you in SD, HD and 2K.

Your DeckLink HD Extreme 2 card already supports SD, HD and 2K via SDI so you just need to find a suitable monitoring solution for these formats.

The monitor you are considering is not a full resolution HD monitor so you won't see the full detail of your HD video and you certainly won't be able to monitor 2K video.

The converter you are considering converts SD/HD-SDI to analog which means the resulting output will include analog noise and be softer than an all-digital workflow. We also have an SDI to Analog Mini Converter at a much lower price but I still would suggest staying with an all-digital workflow if you can.

I would recommend you consider the following workflow. Connect the DeckLink HD Extreme 2 card (that's the current shipping version of the DeckLink HD Extreme card) to a HDLink Pro. This is an SDI to DVI/HDMI converter which also features 6 channels of analog audio output and includes a power supply. Connect the HDLink Pro to a 30" DVI display for full resolution, pixel-for-pixel monitoring of SD, HD and 2K video. Current 30" DVI monitors from companies including Apple, Hewlett Packard, Samsung and Dell have enough pixels to show full resolution 2K (2048 x 1556) video.

The HDLink Pro includes 3D LUT's so you can fine tune your monitor even if there are no controls on the monitor itself. The HDLink Utility software can be installed on a Mac or Windows PC and then connects and controls the HDLink Pro via a USB connection.

Several companies make fancy LCD or plasma broadcast monitors which have a box of electronics attached to them and then offer a DVI connection. These are generally expensive monitors and may or may not offer full-resolution HD display. The box of electronics seems to inflate the cost of the monitor and can sometimes introduce technicalities when using HDLink Pro to produce an image on the display. It is safer and less expensive to buy a straight forward DVI-based computer display and simply attach it directly to HDLink Pro. We test and use all of the current 30" displays from Apple, Hewlett Packard, Samsung and Dell and my personal favorites are the Apple and the Samsung displays.

I think if you compare the costs of the hardware you were considering, compared with the HDLink Pro and a 30" DVI monitor, you will find that digital HD and 2K monitoring is now surprisingly affordable.

If you don't need 2K monitoring, then consider obtaining a display with HDMI input. You can use the HDMI output of the DeckLink HD Extreme 2 card for full-resolution HD1920 x 1080 monitoring. This is uncompressed, digital monitoring so the quality is fantastic and, as always, it's best to use a full-resolution 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 display.

I hope this helps!

Regards,

Luke Maslen
Blackmagic Design

Hi Bryan,

Plasma monitors seem to have better black levels than LCD's and so are great for HD monitoring but I don't think anyone makes a Plasma higher than HD resolution so you can't use a Plasma display for full-resolution 2K monitoring. So if you're working in 2K, then a DVI-based 30" LCD is the technology available today for full resolution monitoring.

Another option is to use a full-resolution 1920x1080 Plasma display and connect it to the HDLink Pro via HDMI. This will be a great solution for SD and HD monitoring. If you want to monitor 2K, you will be able to play out the 2K material via your DeckLink HD Extreme and you will see a cropped 1920 x 1080 image of your 2K material on the Plasma display. This gives you the benefit of being able to see much of your 2K image and enjoy the deeper black levels provided by Plasma displays.

Regards,

Luke Maslen
Blackmagic Design

Hi Bob,

You're on fire! Keep'm coming :-)

Regards,

Luke Maslen
Blackmagic Design

There are several workflows that 'center cut' digital "2K" (to paraphrase an old saying..."The great thing about the 2K standard is that there are so many of 'em.) and monitor on a 1920x1080 display from an HDSDI output.

The typical 30" DL DVI display is WQXGA (2560x1600), which of course has enough pixels to show all the formats Tim W. describes...the color becomes the catch. There isn't a 30" WQXGA that has LED backlighting like the new HP DreamColor display (there aren't many display cards that will even feed out 30 bit in the "enthusiast budget" category either I'll bet...), so they aren't really something to use for precise viewing without running something like Rising Sun Research's (now part of Cine-tal), cineSpace LUT calibration tool.

I find that running a broadcast CRT as well as the large LCD seems to give a bit of the best of both worlds...

As far as "low end 2K"...I suspect there are a not insignificant number of aspiring independent film makers that will rent a 2k camera and wish to try their hand at post themselves to be able to finance the project themselves. This won't be the last time the question is raised, and I think that the sheer numbers in this "market slice" will have manufacturers addressing what seems like their very unorthodox requests. In 5 years, their requests will seem quite normal I suspect.






TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

CPO, Digieffects

Gee Bryan - maybe you can get an AVID Meridian system, to cut 2K with. What do you mean "upgrading and selling their gear". You want to work in 2K, right ? What kind of USED GEAR are you refering to ? A Beta 1800 VTR? A Digi beta camera, a Sony PVM-20M2U monitor. Are you going to do 2K editing with a MAC G5 and an AJA Kona 2, or a Digital Voodoo 64AV ?

You want to do the LATEST COOLEST THING, that 98% of the people on this forum are only dreaming about, and you want to do it with USED GEAR (where 2K workflow didn't even exist a couple of years ago). Exactly what kind of USED GEAR are you talking about ? You are going to need MONSTER drive arrays, and a FAST computer with a product like a Kona 3 to do 2K. What kind of cheapo gear are you going to get to do a 2K job.

Why am I coming after you like this ? Because "new guys" that have no money that want to do Hi Def will start with HDV, or P2 or Sony XDCam, and work in heavily compressed 720p or 1080i, perhaps using Firewire interface, because they can't afford a capture card or an HD monitor. But YOU want to go beyond this, even though you have no money - you want to do 2K, because 1080i with the ProRes422HQ codec is not good enough for you, and 720p with the DVCProHD codec is not good enogh for you you. YOU WANT 2K, you want THE BEST, but you have NO MONEY, yet you want to compete against the guys that have put up their life in hopes of getting some hi end work. WELL, THERE AINT NO CHEAPO 2K WORKFLOW (unless you are building an off line system, and will conform at a post house).

And if I am wrong, and you successfully find a way to charge $400 a day to conform 2K jobs, well, you will have to be punished. That's all there is to it.

A nice MAC Pro with FCP and a Blackmagic Decklink HD Extreme or AJA Kona 3, and a drive array that exceeds 500mb/sec, and a Blackmagic HDLinkPro, and an Apple 30" Cinema (and some audio monitoring) is what you need for a BARE BONES system. The drive array will be the most expensive part of your investment. And those raw 2K files will eat up your drive space like crazy. So you will run out of storage very quickly if you are doing a feature (even if you offline at DV25 NTSC - you want to conform at 2K, right?).

ITS NOT CHEAP, there is no cheap solution. And the solution I have listed above IS cheap. You should be kissing Blackmagic's behind for coming out with the HDLink Pro, so you can see a 2K image file on an Apple 30" Cinema display.

You are not going to get what you want.

bob Zelin

Bryan -
I have done my best this evening to enrage you, and make you lash out at me. But I have failed. After all of this, I hope you wind up buying the HDLink Pro, as it is exactly what you need - no matter what you wind up with.

Bob Zelin

Hi Bryan.

I think Genelec might be to good for economy shop even :)



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Margus

http://iconstudios.eu

Hi Bob.

I wonder if you have tested HDLink Pro and maybe you have a written peace for it ?



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Margus

http://iconstudios.eu

Hi Bob,

Sounds really promising .... with new hub.
To "good" for me at the moment as we are also starting HD and 2K in small market.

You just have really "objective" feel about stuff you test.
This is why i asked HDLink Pro. I presonally do not fancy MXO that Shane has review. Des not mach Multibridge to much in my eye.

But if i can get hold of one HDLink Pro i'll definetly give feedback how SD upconversion looks.

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Margus

http://iconstudios.eu

I reckon Jim Jannard and RED have a lot to answer for when it comes to messing up expectations.

I love the RED One camera, I have now worked on set and in post on a number of RED shoots (all destined for no greater than 1080 in the end). It's a camera for $18,000 (we'll ignore lenses and accessories) that can shoot 4K!

Every indie filmmaker in the country is now convinced they can cut their opus in 4K in FCP and have it projected at the local Multiplex for less than it costs to sponsor a kid in Africa.

They are very mistaken. Yes, they can shoot RED, in 2K, 3K or even 4K. Yes they can cut it in FCP (or Avid, or Premiere, or whatever if they are game to play around). But the 2K or 4K finish, there's the rub. FCP can, in theory, work with 2K resolutions. But it's far from simple at that point, it's not like video. You can't just spit it out. There are huge issues to consider about LUTs, delivery, compression, audio mastering.

My advice to anyone thinking they ought to get into 2K on the cheap is, don't. Wait. Stop. Think about it. FCP and Color and all the rest are good tools, but this isn't really their strongest area, and chances are it's not yours either. There are product and people who really know what they are doing and do it well. Those people and products are what you need. Shoot 4K, edit the proxies in FCP or Avid or whatever, but when it comes to the finishing, if you want any bigger than 1080 then it's time to find a friendly expert. Hire/beg some time on a Scratch or Pablo or Smoke with someone who really knows their stuff. The future nightmares will be reduced and the quality of the end product will be increased.

2K will come to your desktop in time, but wait a while.

[Bob Zelin] "They just don't get it - do they?"

Maybe we don't get it? Time will tell.

[Dylan Reeve] "It's a camera for $18,000 (we'll ignore lenses and accessories) that can shoot 4K! "

What a pathetic remark. You CANNOT shoot 4k. It's a box. Nothing more. Until you add the items that you said to ignore. You are one of the suckers that their marketing plays to. Hey, I can buy a new Corvette for $18k. But hey, it doesn't have an engine. But so what? It's a Corvette, right? No. It's a box, just like the Red.

In other words, for $18K, you cannot record one frame of anything, or can you? It doesn't even have a handle to carry it around. It just lays on a table. But, you could put it on a table and pray to it.

The Red camera is for serious professionals. The complete kit and the gear needed to edit the files are way up there, my friend. To do it right will cost you between $75k and $100k. Anything less than that is a joke.

The sad part is that they will sell so many of them that they will be worth nothing on the rental market because there will always be some desperate guy who will take anything more that a promise just trying to recoup anything.







Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .