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Apple engineers versus an editor's ability to set persistent in to out points in their footage.

COW Forums : Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate

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Aindreas GallagherApple engineers versus an editor's ability to set persistent in to out points in their footage.
by on Apr 27, 2012 at 10:34:07 pm

Phillip Hodgetts wrote a piece echoing some of Larry Jordan's NAB takeaway - from Apple's near, but not quite at, NAB hotel suite sessions.

http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2012/04/some-final-cut-pro-x-data-points/

The comments were pretty interesting - full disclosure said bernstein, I actually was one of the ranters as swimtwobirds - frothing about the statement regarding Apple winning market share dominance. Phillip Hodgetts had posted that, based on his reading of the report:

“Final Cut Pro X – in the last 12 months – has gained the dominant position in the Pro market.”

if I'd been eating cereal, it might have gone flying at that moment. Instead I ranted at him.

Preamble and whatever - but there is an extraordinarily interesting exchange further down -

fantastic read at the link above - but highlights: (this will make this post massive)

Andy Mees:
given the database model and its ability to store multiple marked I/O’s within any given clip as favourites, then it would seem that retention of the (currently selected) in and out point would be supremely easy to implement if there was a will to do so … it is no more than an internal transparent retention of those currently selected points as a favorite (the current favorite if you will). On the face of it its doesn’t seem like it would be much of a stretch.
Cheers
Andy

Phillip hodgetts:
Actually it would be more difficult than you think as it’s a desire to a throwback of a design that only allowed one in and out on any give clip. FCP X has unlimited in and out via keywords.
Therefore an old-style I and O retained would be a backward step. As Greg said, if it’s important range to be retained, throw a favorite or keyword on it.
And non-programmers generally have a very bad idea of how much work something is to implement.

Andy Mees:
“And non-programmers generally have a very bad idea of how much work something is to implement.”
No doubt. But fwiw I am one (or have played one on TV).
“Therefore an old-style I and O retained would be a backward step.”
That’s more bizarre non-logic Philip. The idea of a persistent marked range (you can call it a favourite if you like) that I outlined above is far from a step backward, it simply provides additional, practical and (judging from user reaction) expected functionality using the model that is already in place. It only requires the will to implement it on Apple’s part.

Phillip Hodgetts:
A single persistent I/O would get in the way and conflict with all the other ways of setting persistent I/O – favorites and Keyword ranges. I just can’t believe people are so backward looking. me: (!!!!!)

Andy Mees:
Totally understand that you have your own working preferences Philip. Would you be willing to describe exactly how, for you, allowing a transparently persistent I/O would get in the way, and in what way (let alone all other ways) it would conflict with current methods of making range based selections?

Phillip Hodgetts:
From the programming point of view you’d have to create a third category to go with “Favorite” and “Keyword Range” that would be “Persistent I/O” points. How do they relate to the other two? Are you prepared for a complete rebuild of the database structure to accommodate it?

What happens when a Favorite and I/O range coincide (there’s an existing bug related to two keyword ranges covering exactly the same frames losing notes, for example).

In my opinion it’s a throwback thought for people who haven’t yet made the mental transition to FCP X

Andy Mees:
Is it your feeling that Apple’s FCPX designers have built the entire FCPX database model in a rigid or inflexible (and unrelational) manner?

Phillip Hodgetts:
Andy, the more we’ve thought and talked about this, the more Greg and I are convinced that it is a deliberate decision to NOT have In and Out points.
The more we’ve talked about it, the more we realize how impossible it would be to code around, but much more importantly how complex this would become for users.[[???]]
...Does FCP X edit the keyword range to the Project, or the In/Out range? Or some intersection of the two? When does I/O take precedence over a Favorite or keyword range?
It becomes an incredibly complex matrix of when one takes priority and in an app, from a company where the main focus is “simplify”, that would be anathema.

The more we discussed it last night, the more obvious it was that this is a deliberate decision and that it is the right decision.

---------------

super long post but madly interesting exchange? I was glued - I have edited it a bit but hopefully not Murdoch style.

Phillip Hodgetts holds a spruce cleanliness of basic software logical approach in common with Apple -

my own question would be whether editing practitioners require (or asked) anyone to provide them with such an unannounced sandblasting?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos
http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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