Re: Could not get a date AFTER CASHING $30k worth of checks

[Leo Ticheli] "Surely you're not suggesting that Red was unwilling to, "cut refund checks and not kept the money from those whose orders could not be fulfilled?""

Leo, please DO NOT try to put words into my mouth by twisting what I actually said. I said that I do not believe for a minute that RED is a bunch of liars or crooks. I never said that they refused to send back the money of *anyone* who requested to have it sent back.

What I DID say was that if it were my business, I wouldn't have made those ask who found themselves caught in this unfortunate situation. I would have stepped up to the plate first. I would have made a preemptive strike. I would have let them keep their place in line and refunded all deposits with my apologies for the situation. That is called a "good will gesture."

Without doing this, they left themselves open for this kind of displeasure and disgust from some of their own customers.

If that is hard for you to understand, then I do not know what more I can say in this.


[Leo Ticheli] "If Mr. Gleissner was told that he couldn't have his money refunded, he has a very valid complaint. I'd like to see that in writing. Where is it?"

Once again, you are trying to create a smoke screen around the real issue -- as this is NOT what anyone said was the case, nor the issue. NO ONE said that this happened. You are trying to create a debate on a point that no one said. Ah, but it's a political year and so it seems to be in the air, doesn't it???


[Leo Ticheli] "Red has always had the policy of deposit refunds to anyone for any reason at any time. They have orders for more than 4000 cameras and are just now beginning to deliver the second thousand; does anyone rational believe they aren't trying to get them out as fast as possible?"

Once again, I would refer you to my reply as to smoke screens and debates on issues that were never said nor implied. No one doubts that RED is trying to fill these orders as quickly as possible -- that was never the "bone of contention" nor what the issue was directed at.

To get it off the "bunny trail" and back to the actual issue that was being stated and addressed: It has to do with companies taking money from notices that they themselves sent stating that units were ready and that needed final payment in order to ship them -- only to be told after the money was paid that there were "issues" and that they would NOT be forthcoming as promised.

THAT is the issue.


[Leo Ticheli] "I was hoping this forum would be a place where intelligent questions could be answered by those with actual experience both with the camera and the company. This is often not the case."

With something as revolutionary as the RED ONE, there are bound to be all kinds of preposterous statements made both for and against the camera. But this issue is pretty straightforward from all I can see. Trying to create it in an image of a debate framed in terms and arguments that are clearly neither stated nor implied -- at least not in the terms you seem to hear -- is clearly of the very spirit that you seem to decry as not being one of intelligence.


[Leo Ticheli] "Once again noise triumphs over signal."

Yes, indeed. It appears that it does, doesn't it?

:)


[Leo Ticheli] "Too many, "what lens do I use to make a movie," sort of posts at the Cow, too many, "what professional lighting kit can I buy for $200.00," posts, too many posts from people who have ZERO actual experience but pretend to know what they're talking about."

Wow, Leo. I look around the COW and I see person after person with experience in major motion pictures, major broadcast productions and many other projects that are far beyond the newbies who ask why shop lights can't be used to make their Star Wars fanboy film.

And next time, please feel free to mention me by name as being one one of the ones with ZERO experience that you were referring to. But what you do not know as I do not tell people in the COW what I work on or do not work on, is that I am currently working on a motion picture with one of my favorite actors of all-time, someone whom I grew up watching on Playhouse 90, the Kraft Masterpiece Theatre, Hallmark Hall of Fame, etc., and that is Nehemiah Persoff. Why do I never talk about it? Because you can't build something like the COW without ticking off some people and over the years I have critics who spend too much of their time ripping into me and so I just quietly go about my business and let those think what they will who wish to. I don't care. If I worried about what people thought or said, I'd be a miserable man. So I just do what I wish when I wish and leave people to their thoughts.

But in closing, once again attempting to turn the argument to issues that were not stated nor implied seems to be all the rage this political season and attempts to derail the real issue which was and is...

Why did they take this guy's money at their request and then not do anything to circumvent this kind of displeasure when circumstances prevailed which kept them from fulfilling the promised unit???

That, mon ami, is the real issue and all the smoke screens and bunny trails in the world won't change that nor give your argument any more validity than the near-fanboy anger of one who has to take personal shots because he doesn't like what is being said.

Think what you want, Leo.

Ron Lindeboom
creativecow.net