Re: XDCam/DVCProHD Bit rate

" Only the changes are recorded from frame to frame in MPEG."

And the problem is? it works with meta-data and keeps a record of what is the same and what isn't. I've never witnessed (and don't know anyone who has) an issue with there being more changes than the algorithm can muster.

"When working with an I-frame codec,this is not an issue."

Ah, but it is an issue, and it can be even worse. As I've mentioned, every single frame is shredded with DVCPROHD I-Frame, which is like a still JPEG photo. So the effects can be worse here, don't be under any illusion Jan, I've seen it on many occasions. I still shoot on I-Frame camcorders.

"Oh, please. I only pointed out the silliness of your claim that Panasonic didn't do MPEG because we couldn't do it as well as Sony, That was the dumb technical argument."

Not dumb. Check with Panny Japan, they have played around with MPEG2 in the past; to no avail.

"My point was that resolution specs do not tell the entire story."

I agree.

"$5000 lens versus the $10,000. In fact I can see the difference between the $8000 Fujinon 2/3" vs the $10,000 Canon 2/3"."

I'm talking about two specific lenses and I've seen them as I was going to buy one over the other; fact.

"Perhaps you had destructive workflow issues because you were unfamiliar with working the workflow. But I can assure you that with a project as big as the Iditarod, with over 140 hours of P2 workflow capture and editing, we didn't lose a clip or a card. And that is only the very tippy-top of the iceberg of work that has been done on P2 and it is indeed a very reliable workflow."

I totally understand the workflow, shoot P2, dump to laptop or P2 store, edit, then archive to domestic Blu-Ray DVDs or DLT? what a joke.

As for Iditarod, is that all you've got, Sony did Iditarod on XDCAM HD the year before. If P2 is so tough, why did Panny UK refuse to let me do some of my special tests on it, when Sony were happy for me to test XDCAM HD discs by freezing them in water in the freezer, then thawing them out in the microwave and putting them through a dishwasher; oh, all clips were fine by the way. Panasonic UK refused my offer to test P2 cards to the same degree and said there were not designed to take such punishment. Well you could quite easily drop a P2 card in the snow, or in a river, or a hot volcanic fountain on a shoot; surely?

"Actually in reality the XDCAM HD workflow on a minute to minute basis is more expensive than tape. I am not saying it doesn't work for you, I am just saying that in comparison to a tape workflow, it is very similar and it costs more than tape."

Rubish, unless you are comparing to mini-dv tape. Comparing to Digibeta it is slightly less, and much less than HDCAM.

How does P2 fair up to the tape pricing these days?

Oh, and please don't tell me you can re-use a P2 card thousands of times. XDCAM Discs cost $15 and can be re-used 10,000 times and played back over a million times.

"Here you have the right to your opinion, but the reality that it is not true. I was in product discussions yesterday with Panasonic Japan where indeed we were planning P2 cameras and products that would deliver in 2009."

If this is the case, Panny are going down. As for the rest of my IT/P2 ramblings; all true. The IT industry does NOT support PC-Cards anymore, they are tooo slow and twitchy, this is why everyone (except Panny) have moved on.

"The PCMCIA slot is still on the PC laptops and the brand new computer 2 weeks ago still has a PCMCIA slot."

Yeah, what brand, some cheap Chinese copy/unknown as they don't know any better.

Check out MacBook Pros and Vaio's, Dells etc. Not a PC Card slot in sight. Unless it is old stock. Check out the DVinfo forums, HVX200 guys buying up 2 year old MacBook's like no tomorrow as they have PC Card slots on them.

"Show me the PC that has the XDCAM Disk built in?"

Don't have to because I can record 65 minutes of glorious HD 1080x1440 footage onto a disc. I don't have to dump, I simply put in another CHEAP disc and continue recording. P2 users need it as they can't afford to buy 15 x 16GB cards to stick in their pocket.

"Microsoft in their NAB presentation 2 years ago called it an IT workflow."

Ha, Microsoft eh, says it all. Biggest is not the best.

When Sony's EX series come out over the next 2 years I just hope they have superb error correction built in like the current XDCAM HD does; or they will also suffer like Panasonic have.

"It can edit directly off of the card, and the files can be managed by meta-data, yes; it is indeed an IT workflow."

So is XDCAM HD.

"The Duel-Systems adapter brings the PCMCIA card slot technology to those computers that no longer have a PCMCIA slot."

Ah, a dodgy workaround fix, just until P2 dies in a few years time.

"There is no need for further development whichis what the PCMCIA commeittee stated. It is not a dead technology, it is totally viable."

They said the same thing about floppy discs when CD drives came out.

"Why rely on spinning disk technology when solid state is so much more of a sure thing?"

Is it, I've never heard of a corrupt clip on XD, EVER. Nor have I heard of my XD disc being wiped whilst dumping it to an in-the-field device like a P2 store, then locking up and losing everything. This is quite common with P2 store according to the regular forums.

"And isn't Sony the only company making XDCAM HD disks?"

No not actually, Sony, TDK, Maxell and Fuji all make XDCAM HD discs, why? because they are selling millions of the things and making a killing on them. Because they are cheap, people use them like tape, shoot to disc, edit, stick disc on shelf; end of story.

This will never happen with P2. As for Sony's new SxS cards, not only will Sandis make them, but so will Fuji, Sandisk and many others. Cheap, Cheap, Cheap and even Cheaper.

Buy the time 64GB P2 cards come out, there will be 128GB SxS cards for $79.

With P2 you are heading into the dark ages I'm afraid.

"Right now I know that there are two other companies that are trying to make them, but it isn't all that easy, it is more than flash memory"

Wrong, seed above, Fuji, TDK, Maxell, check there web sites for XDCAM HD discs, they have been making them for a year already and they are WAYYYYYYY cheaper to make than flash memory. It is based on Blu-Ray technology, which these companies already have in place. Keep digging Jan, you'll reach Australia soon.

"Well unlike the Disk technologies or even tape, you don't need thousands of cards, each camera only needs a handful, so there really wouldn't need to be a lot of manufacturers making cards."

When Sony's first EX series camera comes out in November/December, I'd bet my bottom dollar that by the middle of next year there are at least 3 manufactures making SxS cards. In fact I guarantee it. In fact there are already 2 companies making them.

"You act as though you have some special secret knowledge"

I do ;)