| Sony J3/902 Rocks!
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Hello all,
I know we had a thread several months ago where folks were asking about this new J3/902 MultiFormat Beta Player that Sony is touting as a way to playback "legacy" tapes on one machine. I added one to my arsenal three weeks ago to please one client that still shoots DigiBeta. I have to say it totally rocks!
For those who don't know, this one machine plays back Betacam, BetacamSP, BetacamSX, MPEG IMX and DigiBeta, both small and large loads. It comes standard with RS-422 control. Video outs include: Composite BNC, Composite RCA, S-Video and SDI. Audio out is 2 channel XLR Balanced.
I'm running it SDI into my Pro D&A BOB and the thing has been absolutely wonderful to work with. Even my Analog SP tapes look better coming down the SDI. Timecode has been rock solid accurate and the shuttle controls on the front are such a welcome change from running the UVW-1800 with "finger control."
The deck is designed to sit up on its side, like the DSR-11, and probably weighs less than 10 lbs. Nice front digital display and turning out to be a great workhorse.
It came down to purchasing a used DigiBeta player for around $11,500 (which ONLY played DigiBeta) or picking up this deck new for $11,800 and I went with it because it plays back everything. This will end up saving wear and tear on my UVW-1800 and I can just use that for recording.
Just wanted to pass this along in case any of you are in need of multiple formats of beta playback. cheers!
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Final Cut Pro / CineWave Forum / Atlanta FCPUG Host
Owner/Creative Director, d'Arte media creations & Southern Sky Creative
http://www.dartemedia.com
http://www.southernskycreative.com
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• | | | |  | Re: Sony J3/902 Rocks!
by Justin Allen on Mar 21, 2003 at 3:16:25 am |
Walter,
I have had one for the last 6 months. This machine is a monster. And you're right, it does give you a better beta picture.
Did you know that there are 26 seperate heads in this baby?
Justin Allen
Katana Interactive
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I had a chance to compare the J3 SDI output to the Digi Beta DVW 500 SDi Output, and observed that the quality of the J3 was good, but a little noisy in comparison to the DVW 500. The same Digi Beta tape was first captured using the J3, then captured with the DVW 500. The same footage was laid up together in split screen and observed on our SDI output monitor. We then did a versiuon of the "Coke vs Pepsi" test by having professionals compare the split screen without knowing what side was what. In every instance they picked the J3 material as being noisy. The difference is very small and probably only noticeable in a direct comparison.
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• | | | | | Re: Sony J3/902 Rocks!
by Johan Edstrom on Mar 21, 2003 at 8:22:29 am |
Other users say it (the J3) remotes fine if you use long pre-roll.
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[Johan Edstrom] "Other users say it (the J3) remotes fine if you use long pre-roll. "
I'm only using a 3 second pre-roll like my UVW-1800 and it's working just fine.
As for the noise issue, it's absolutely minimal at most , and like you said, you'd need a split screen with a (much more expensive) DVW to see the difference. With only one client using DigiBeta anymore, I didn't see the value in purchasing a DVW for Digi playback only. My client uses DVW's in their shop and they are so impressed with the J3 that they are looking into possibly getting some as well.
Also, the clarity of the SP material over the UVW-1800 is clearly noticeable without even using the split screen. It's just seems much more rich and sharp over compared to stuff captured component from the UVW.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Final Cut Pro / CineWave Forum / Atlanta FCPUG Host
Owner/Creative Director, d'Arte media creations & Southern Sky Creative
http://www.dartemedia.com
http://www.southernskycreative.com
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• | | | | | Re: Sony J3/902 Rocks!
by Rune Hansen on Mar 21, 2003 at 7:48:35 pm |
[ Walter Biscardi ] Also, the clarity of the SP material over the UVW-1800 is clearly noticeable without even using the split screen. It's just seems much more rich and sharp over compared to stuff captured component from the UVW.
I have a J3 as well, and my experience with SP material is not the same as yours at all; however I'm not comparing with the budget UVW series (which have the same S/N ratio as the J3 for SP material). SP coming in from the J3 looks very soft when compared to the PVW-2800 (which again is not even remotely as good as the BVW series).
As for the DigiBeta SDI noise, I'm not sure why there would be noise in a digital transfer like this... In the same way, the cheapest DV decks provide the same quality DV playback as the most expensive studio machines. Mechanical issues, features and possibly error correction, etc, will be the most important differences. I also use between 2-5 second pre-roll and have no problems with this at all.
I've done transfers from both rented DVW-500's and my J3, and actually at some point did a difference compare of frames captured, and they came up identical. Could the SDI cable be the issue...?
I totally adore the J3 in every way.
--rune
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[Rune Hansen] " have a J3 as well, and my experience with SP material is not the same as yours at all; however I'm not comparing with the budget UVW series (which have the same S/N ratio as the J3 for SP material). SP coming in from the J3 looks very soft when compared to the PVW-2800 (which again is not even remotely as good as the BVW series). "
Wow, that's interesting. I was told by a Sony Engineer that the image quality (and a lot of the electronics) between the UVW and PVW series are extremely close. Essentially, the PVW has more features and is more of a Linear Editing machine, while the UVW was originally designed for corporate work and then evolved into a major NLE machine.
He said the BVW's obviously offer the best image quality of any Beta machine, but that the UVW and PVW viewed through Component should be extremely close. Now the SP tapes I'm capturing via SDI now from the J3 look noticeably better than the UVW.
Very interesting stuff.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Final Cut Pro / CineWave Forum / Atlanta FCPUG Host
Owner/Creative Director, d'Arte media creations & Southern Sky Creative
http://www.dartemedia.com
http://www.southernskycreative.com
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• | | | | | Re: Sony J3/902 Rocks!
by Rune Hansen on Mar 22, 2003 at 1:03:11 am |
[ Walter Biscardi ] Wow, that's interesting. I was told by a Sony Engineer that the image quality (and a lot of the electronics) between the UVW and PVW series are extremely close.
The Spec sheets of the 2800/1800 have quite different specifications, and while I'm certainly not a broadcasting engineer, the signal/noise ratio is quite a bit different: PVW-2800 = "More than 51dB" UVW-1800 = "More than 49dB". It's not jaw-dropping, of course. I'm not at my office right now (actually, I'm sick and in bed) so I don't have all the data, really. The BVWs have even higher ratios, though.
For the J3, I can't find any real specs, but it would be very interesting data. We use the J3 mostly for DigiBeta ingest into our NLEs, and for BetaSP viewing. BetaSP ingest/mastering would be with a PVW-2800, though.
In any case, beautiful, beautiful decks. I agree with whoever said that the Jog/Shuttle is very poor -- I usually let FCP be my shuttle, in which case it works pretty well.
I'm also looking forward to seeing the new HDCam players that follow the same kind of philosophy as the J-series.
--rune
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[Rune Hansen] "I'm also looking forward to seeing the new HDCam players that follow the same kind of philosophy as the J-series."
Wow, I haven't heard about those yet. I'm planning to add the HD BOB shortly and did not know there was a "J" type of HD deck coming along. Great news.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Final Cut Pro / CineWave Forum / Atlanta FCPUG Host
Owner/Creative Director, d'Arte media creations & Southern Sky Creative
http://www.dartemedia.com
http://www.southernskycreative.com
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• | | | |  | j-HD
by naz on Mar 22, 2003 at 11:44:51 am |
i think that apple plans to play with HD (by Panasonic implementation DVCPRO HD) without hardware, using firewire800 and licensed software encoder. we all know that HD is by fact, very compressed - 3:1 and cineweve does upsampling like m100 with hardware DV. stream as 100MBps isn needed for HD, DPS HD system already works in same manner using licensed HARDWARE codec by sony. so it keeps DPS files smaller, coz they are not UP-compressed. hardware means extremely slow in this situation - importing one frame of graphics takes up to 10 sec on DPS system i saw. Compare with rendering in m100, using hardware, and transcoder, difference.
so i guess, in close future we'll be playin with dvcpro... one form-factor for dvcpro25, dvcpro50 AND dvcpro HD, one deck can play all of them... without hardware on Mac, with Albert Gore as one of Apple's directors (and he's FCP user too)...
All the best, sorry for my english
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[ naz ] i think that apple plans to play with HD (by Panasonic implementation DVCPRO HD) without hardware, using firewire800 and licensed software encoder. we all know that HD is by fact, very compressed
I used to think so as well, what with the NAB2002 Panasonic/Apple Press Release, but, uhmm, after seeing certain, cough, documents, uhmm, I think the chances for this (at least soon) are less likely.
Note that the AJ-HD1600, a deck I understood would be the HD/FireWire deck, has been removed very quietly, from the Panasonic website. A Google Cached version can be found by searching for "AJ-HD1600".
I know for sure that DVCPro50 will be over FireWire Real Soon Now, but HD looks slightly bleaker...
You can read about the Sony J-H1, though, which is the J-series HD deck, in the mean time. $22,000 for a 23.98-capable HDCam deck!
--rune
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• | | | | | heh 3
by naz on Mar 22, 2003 at 11:35:00 am |
even (i dont know how it on english, but something like resolution) number of lines in 1800 is less than in 75, 60 and of course 500 machines. 1800 is very budget solution, and i think cinewave uncompressed quality not necessary for this machine - i have a couple of betas in studio house here and can do comparsion - 1800, 65 and 500, +also J3... wait year or two and take a look on your J3 (i hope everything will be ok with it) :-)
All the best, sorry for my english
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• | | | | | heh
by naz on Mar 21, 2003 at 9:45:14 am |
this is because u used 1800 :))
we (that folks) constantly using A-500P, and if you compare J-3 with his big bro (45 000$), its definitely clear that J-3 just cheap and nasty thing for cowboys... huge works with j-3 is a nightmare.
All the best, sorry for my english
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• | | | | | heh2
by naz on Mar 21, 2003 at 9:58:51 am |
in previous post i meant that i comparing J-3 with IMX player-recorder, same league as A-500. Digibeta quality undoubtedly much better; imx, even good shoots, lacks deepness. J-3 is bad in manufacturing it even cant be compared with beta1800, which is plastic inside and outside. Doesnt matter how much heads inside it, the only IMX i can take serious is BIG one... latency of J-3 jog makes it unuseable (for me), i better control the 1800 - its more accurate...
Sure, theres a couple of good things, like burnt-in timecode over SDI, but i think J-3 is only for producers, loggers and if your work with offlining of digital shoots. If you mastering on 1800 after capturing from J-3, your tape still not broadcast-ready, coz it lacs VITC... (at least, on 1st channel, NTV, RTR and other central tv channels in Russia)
All the best, sorry for my english
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Well, I don't seem to have a problem sending off my tapes to duplicators and broadcasters when capturing from the J3. All are impressed and I'm really happy with it.
Since most of my stuff is now coming in DVCAM, my beta machines are getting less and less work, so the J3 is a nice way to offer all flavors of Beta in one convenient machine.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Final Cut Pro / CineWave Forum / Atlanta FCPUG Host
Owner/Creative Director, d'Arte media creations & Southern Sky Creative
http://www.dartemedia.com
http://www.southernskycreative.com
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• | | | |  | Re: Sony J3/902 Rocks!
by Jeremy Tohtz on Mar 24, 2003 at 6:46:27 pm |
I second that.
this is the perfect feeder deck for any non-linear editing system.
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