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Thinking of an uncompressed board for FCP. Advise?

COW Forums : Pinnacle CineWave

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Steve MartinThinking of an uncompressed board for FCP. Advise?
by on Jan 24, 2003 at 9:52:18 pm

Hello All,

I run a small video production company and we’ve been editing on Media100 for the last 7 years or so. While there’s a lot we like about M100, quite frankly we’ve outgrown the interface. We purchased FCP3 and installed on a Dual 867 a few months ago and really like the interface.

Pending a few large projects in the works for later this year, we’re thinking about taking the plunge and shifting our main suite to FCP with an uncompressed board. I know there are several choices (CineWave, Kona, Voodo, others?) but I’m not sure which is best for me.

Given a little info about us, I’d like any feedback and/or recommendations from the folks actually using these systems. (I will cross-post on the other COW forums as well).

For the time being, most footage will be captured from BetaSP with a lesser amount from DV. In the future we will be looking at HD as well – so an upgrade path would be nice. However, I don’t want to buy more than I need now – just to have that option in the future.

We’re not techno-geeks here, so we really need a system that is very stable. The one thing I like about my M100 is the fact that it’s rock solid. The system doesn’t have to do anything but run the FCP, AE, Illustrator, Cleaner, Photoshop, etc…. Once it’s installed, we’re pretty good about not messing with it. (It’s almost a capital offense around here to install any software in the edit suite that isn’t necessary – we have other machines for that.)

We’re not looking for a lot of cheesy real time transitions - dissolves and simple wipes are dandy. However, RT color correction and effects are a real plus. Key framable scale, rotation and reposition effects would be nice, but right now we do most of that in AE.

The ability to capture at draft resolution (say 10:1 or 60kb/frame) then easily re-capture the finished show at full resolution later is something we do regularly with our M100 and if possible would that to mimic that workflow in the proposed new system.

While we’ll try to get the most bang for the buck, I don’t believe cost will be the major determining factor. It will be features & reputation for reliability that drive the decision.

Any thoughts on what system might give us the best combination of features would be welcomed.

Thanks,

Steve
Orlando, FL


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James MurphyRe: Thinking of an uncompressed board for FCP. Advise?
by on Jan 25, 2003 at 9:42:09 pm

[Steve Martin] "For the time being, most footage will be captured from BetaSP with a lesser amount from DV. In the future we will be looking at HD as well – so an upgrade path would be nice. However, I don’t want to buy more than I need now – just to have that option in the future. "

Steve,

Just a couple thoughts. The path to HD is easy, just snap on the bob when you are ready and away you go. I've heard there are some companies that are renting the HD bobs for those with Cinewave boards who aren't ready to buy the bob but have an occassional HD project. Make sure you get a raid that will support HD (refer to our config guide on our website, Pinnaclesys.com>Support>Cinewave) so you won't have to buy a new raid when the time comes for HD. We do both HD and SD on the same board, so the upgrade is a snap plus we do a realtime downconvert to SD on the card, so you can master HD and SD simultaneously. Cinewave is very flexible and scalable.


[Steve Martin] "We’re not techno-geeks here, so we really need a system that is very stable. The one thing I like about my M100 is the fact that it’s rock solid. The "

The config guide should be followed to the letter for max stability.

[Steve Martin] "We’re not looking for a lot of cheesy real time transitions - dissolves and simple wipes are dandy. However, RT color correction and effects are a real plus. Key framable scale, rotation and reposition effects would be nice, but right now we do most of that in AE. "

Cinewave has the most RT effects on the market, the standards and the cheese, we got it. Yeah, I never need or use most of the goofy wipes systems come with, well placed cuts and dissolves, that is my bread and butter. But simple things like Pic in Pics, moving graphics across the screen, we do it better than any other boards with FCP. We are a true dual channel, Uncompressed board.

[Steve Martin] "The ability to capture at draft resolution (say 10:1 or 60kb/frame) then easily re-capture the finished show at full resolution later is something we do regularly with our M100 and if possible would that to mimic that workflow in the proposed new system. "

We can do offline qualities by scaling the resolution back. We reduce the resolution of the clips by removing lines from the vertical and horizontal resolution (thusly reducing the image size and file size) and then the targa card pushes this reduced image back up full screen. The quality is not as nice as some of the offline compressed resolutions out there, but your low rez and online rez's are mixable as they are all still uncompressed. The HD offline looks gorgeous.

Cinewave offers a lot of connection choices, so you have a wide array of choices for bobs, starting with a basic Analog bob and moving up to our Pro Digital/Analog bob and the HD bob. Any two bobs can be on the system at a given time, so the choice will depend on your workflow and needs.

Cinewave was released on OSX in December 02, now we are focusing on tweaking the release and working on the next wave of killer features.

Hope this helps,

James Murphy
Pinnacle Product Specialist


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Tim LangstonRe: Thinking of an uncompressed board for FCP. Advise?
by on Jan 26, 2003 at 5:37:51 pm

"now we are focusing on tweaking the release and working on the next wave of killer features."


Such as..... Waveform/Vectorscope? New Title tool like "Title Deko"? Another channel in real-time, depending on drive speed? Improvements between GeeThree and CineWave?

Just wondered,
Tim


Tim Langston
Cryin' Out Loud Productions
Fort Wayne, IN
http://www.colproductions.com


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Bart HarrisonRe: Thinking of an uncompressed board for FCP. Advise?
by on Jan 26, 2003 at 7:11:48 pm

Hi Steve,

We are a CineWave/Kona VAR in Ft. Lauderdale and also operate The HD Suite here which specializes in 24p HDCAM production & post. As for the primary differences between these cards CineWave has two RT alpha/graphics tracks with simultanious movement and scaling on both. Kona currently doesn't have any RT graphics but does support 10-bit internal processing (CineWave is 8-bit and 16-bit). CineWave has limited SD offline capabilities but Kona supports capture from SDI directly to DV or photo JPEG for offline. We recommend using the Canopus ADVC-100 DV bridge for 5:1 offline with CineWave.

CineWave supports SD and HD on the same card all you have to do is add the HD breakout box and you can do both (simultaniously). Kona SD and HD are seperate cards so ideally you will need two seperate systems to do SD and HD. All these cards now fully support OS X Jaguar.

Feel free to email or give me a call if you have any specific questions. I'll be happy to put you in touch with a few of our customers if you'd like some first-hand opinions/information.

Bart

- - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Build `em right... support `em well... let our customers do the talking !"

Bart Harrison
Multimedia Programming America
The HD Suite

America's VAR
Apple, Shake, CineWave, Kona, & Rorke SAN
http://www.mpa.net


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Johan EdstromRe: Thinking of an uncompressed board for FCP. Advise?
by on Jan 27, 2003 at 8:24:24 am

If you do long format stuff the Cinewave RT effects come in really handy. You can color correct a 30 min piece (or longer of course) and not have to render a single frame. As mentioned above the HD upgrade path is a snap if you have the proper RAID already in place. Whatever choice you make, don't cheap out on the storage solution. Good, reliable, high data rate storage is key to a well functioning system.


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