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Sony product or perhaps the Canon XL1

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graham laneSony product or perhaps the Canon XL1
by on May 10, 2001 at 12:14:42 am

I am not a pro, just a hobbiest with a very tight budget, however a friend of mine is setting up to do some "film" making oand he has a thicker wallet. he has gotten his heart set on a Canon XL-1. I would like to hear your opinions as to wheather this is a desceent camera for doing studio work with occasional outdoor work. He would listen to reason if I told him he would be better off with a Sony 3 chip PD150, or even the little PD100A.
There isn't a Canon Forum so I thought I would throw it in here.

Let's say his camera budget is in the range of the XL1 and that he would not mind going cheaper.

Definatly DV, and maybe DVcam if the camera wasnt out of range cost wise.

Thanks, Graham


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graham laneRe: Sony product or perhaps the Canon XL1
by on May 10, 2001 at 12:16:31 am

Forgot to add that Firewire is the capture solution. And if DVcam came into the picture I am thinking that the editing system is going to have to mive into SCSI to handle the data rate. Am I right?
Thanks again


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Michael MunkittrickRe: Sony product or perhaps the Canon XL1
by on May 10, 2001 at 12:30:16 am

We actually use a single 7,200 rpm ATA66 drive to capture DVCam with no trouble at all.

As far as the camera choice goes, it is honest to God a very subjective choice. I'm Sony through and through, but the XL-1 is a very good camera aside from it's incompatibility with some capture cards (mainly Pinnacle Systems stuff). The Sony cameras color balance a bit more blue and the Canons balance a little more red or warmer. I'll say that if you are going to go brodcast, either is considered pretty reasonable, but the Sony is limited to the lens that Sony chose where as, if you have $2,000 or so more bucks you get a full-on professional Canon with a really clean image. It really boils down to your peference and your wallet. Over all, I would choose the Sony for its compatibility and its DVCam status, but that alone isn't enough to set it "out in front" by much, if at all.

Michael


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graham laneRe: Sony product or perhaps the Canon XL1
by on May 10, 2001 at 1:03:53 am

Thanks for the quick replies. That fear of the next best thing is justa round teh corner is being ignored on purpose, by the buyer. If a lense for the Canon XL1 cost a huge bundle andf this is his first film to work with I think I would tell him to not worry about the extra lense issue. I had read that the DVCAM had more info to move and that is a relief to know the ATA(IDE) drives can handle it. SCSI is just too expensive for my taste. Perhaps that was uncompressed video that I was thinking of, or DV PRo, no matter.


Thanks again, and thanks to anyone else who responds in advance.


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Michael MunkittrickRe: Sony product or perhaps the Canon XL1
by on May 10, 2001 at 5:12:28 pm

Don't get me wrong. SCSI drives will enable real-time (if your hardware supports it) and will give you much faster "scrubbing" within your editing interface, but for general purpose editing, you should be fine. You won't get any dropouts using DV until you get around 3/4 of the drive full, and if you have a good defrag tool, you might get more.
Also, the XL-1 does have a crappy viewfinder, but an extrenal monitor is almost a nessecity when you are shooting anyway, but I'd still go to a local retailer and take a look at the video for yourself.

Michael


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Barend OnneweerRe: Sony product or perhaps the Canon XL1
by on May 10, 2001 at 10:30:28 pm

Reading back, I think I may have been a bit harsh on the XL-1. Actually I really like the softer image the XL-1 tends to produce. I've seen stuff filmed with an XL-1 with an Optex lens and transferred on film, and it looked really stunning. The consensus seems to be that the XL-1 transfers a bit nicer to film than the VX-2000 and PD-150, but I haven't been able to compare them.

Also I really like the look of the XL-1, and it is nice to handle, with the possiblity to shoulder mount.

This is indeed supposed to confuse everybody... tough choices...

Barend


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graham laneRe: Sony product or perhaps the Canon XL1
by on May 11, 2001 at 6:43:07 am

Well that's kind of what I wanted to hear: Confusion. It really helps to hear you folks bounce the pros and cons around because I dont even know what to look for (Even though I wont be buying the thing) and what problems come up in shooting video. Nobody has mentioned the PD 100A. I am looking into that little model as well, due to its shrinky dink size. I have seen it used on MTV for some of the stupid things like Jackass. I have read accounts of this as having incredibly good output, but realize it is a TRV900 in a "professional" package, so if anyone here has any experience, I would love to hear it too.

Are any of these smaller cameras having problems with the standard OHCI complent firewire cards with the Texas Instrument chips, or the built in MAC firewire ports?


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Michael MunkittrickRe: Sony product or perhaps the Canon XL1
by on May 11, 2001 at 5:10:22 pm

Fortunately, I have only had to use the PD-100a once. I don't like the camera much due to its size. It is hard to keep steady and even more complicated to use the maual features. Stick with a bigger camera nd you'll see a difference. If you dougbt my advice, you have got to hold one for yourself.

Michael


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Barend OnneweerRe: Sony product or perhaps the Canon XL1
by on May 10, 2001 at 12:37:29 am

Hi,

The datarate of DVCam is exactly the same as DV or MiniDV. Same compression, just different tape-size or tape-speeds. DVCam is less prone to drop-outs and damage of the information on tape, but the quality of the signal is exactly the same.

I think if you look below, you'll find a thread about this kind of choice, but basically the idea is this:

Image quality and detail of the PD150 is better than the XL-1. Also it can handle a lot more physical abuse (lesss important for studio work maybe). The XL-1 has better audio-recording options, and an interchangeable lens, but a decent zoomlens from say Optex, will cost a couple of thousand $...

The viewfinder of the XL-1 is crap, all professionals seem to replace them. The PD150 has an LCD fold-out monitor that's quite usable.

Under most circumstances, I'd suggest: get the PD150.

Rumour says there will be an XL-2 later this year...

Hope this helps

Barend


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