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Getting to do something you have never done before.

COW Forums : Art of the Edit

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Patrick GregstonGetting to do something you have never done before.
by on Jan 23, 2003 at 8:59:11 pm

Thought it would be interesting to here what you all think is the best way to move up or over in your area of interest- or how do you ethically get a job doing something you haven't ever done before, whether it is cutting long form or recording ADR or whatever.
One editor I know says it is all about lying at the time of the interview, but making it true when the gig starts.
What say you?



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rextilleonRe: Getting to do something you have never done before.
by on Jan 24, 2003 at 2:00:15 pm

Ah, the ethics of the resume----LOL Now that can be very risky----I think that you really need to be a pitbull (sans the biting) when dealing with the Catch 22 of moving ahead when experience is a prime qualification.


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JamieRe: Getting to do something you have never done before.
by on Jan 24, 2003 at 3:42:49 pm

Hmmm, lying at interview....?

But what happens if you CAN'T do it when the gig starts?

Bit risky I'd say... probably the best bet is to try and get a little experience in a new area then at least you can say at interview that you've had a certain amount of training but are no expert. Then you've got a foot in the door and can develop from there.

Or maybe I'm just a coward...


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James GreenRe: Getting to do something you have never done before.
by on Jan 24, 2003 at 4:30:37 pm

I wouldn't lie. But then people will be able to tell by your demo reel too. Unless of course you fake that too. It's just not worth it. If you get busted on the job, you've just blown your chances of working with them in the future (especially if they lay out a lot of cash and don't find out until after the shoot that you didn't know what you were doing). Not exactly a resume builder so you're right back where you started; no experience (worth mentioning anyway) but one less potential employer. It's just not worth the risk and it really hurts everyone who is trying to start out in this business because now they're all potential liars.

James Green


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Charlie KingRe: Getting to do something you have never done before.
by on Jan 24, 2003 at 4:56:49 pm

i have found if you misrepresent and then can't do the work, this is a very small world when you are talking video production. People talk and the last thing you want is them telling others "stay away from that guy....."

Charlie


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mark harveyRe: Getting to do something you have never done before.
by on Jan 24, 2003 at 6:16:46 pm

I would never lie to a future employer. Remember Rome wasn't built in a day! Patience is key. You have to work hard to get where you want to go. Try to show variety on a CV and demo reel. What I mean by this, is show that you are a quick learner and a good artist. In the interview mention that you are a quick learner and let your work shine through with you demo reel.
Remember it is not the tools, but the artist that makes for good work. I would much prefer to hire a great artist who doesn't yet know the system we are using than to hire a mediocre artist who knows the tools. You can teach someone the equipment, but you can't really teach someone creativity...or at least I don't think so. I've seen a lot of people who have been on the same piece of equipment for a while, but they still don't know how to edit.

Best of luck,
Mark Harvey


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grinnerRe: Getting to do something you have never done before.
by on Jan 24, 2003 at 6:18:57 pm

Lou Gerrig once said "There aint no such thing as braggin'. Your either lieing or your tellin' the truth". That said, feel free to tell the truth but Never lie! Not to a dude doing an interview, not to anybody... ever. It's simply a bad idea in general and those who do it have reasons like they aren't good enough otherwise.
I've never held much stock in resumes. I don't understand why employers place so much emphasis on em. Good folks look good on paper and bad ones make themselves look good on paper. I see em as a waist of time and paper. Poor trees die for em. The proof is in the puddin' as they say.
Have fun at what ya do and that will make for growth.

grin


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James GreenRe: Getting to do something you have never done before.
by on Jan 24, 2003 at 9:36:54 pm

I use the word resume in a general sense...mainly referring to copy, credit or experience other's can vouch for. I hate written resumes too. They're kinda like all the beautiful people you see in online chatrooms...perfect in every sense (ie fake). I'll take reality eight days a week...

James Green


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Paul FentonRe: Getting to do something you have never done before.
by on Jan 26, 2003 at 1:29:18 am

Just spinning this one around....

How many people have had potential EMPLOYERS lie to you about how great they are???


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grinnerhonesty:
by on Jan 26, 2003 at 5:07:46 pm

nice spin, man!
I certainly have.
:-(


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Charlie KingRe: honesty:
by on Jan 27, 2003 at 5:01:50 pm

Good point.


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Martin RowellRe: honesty:
by on Jan 28, 2003 at 3:36:24 pm

Employer lie? As a Promotions Producer I never lied but I was selective.

But back to the original thread...My favorite line in an interview is, "I've never worked with that particular widget but I'm quite capable with similar widgets."

Also, seems like I read a survey recently that showed that candidates got the interview because of the resume but the actual hiring was based on more personal concerns, i.e., do I like this person, will he/she fit in, etc. And references can only dissuade, nor persuade.

...and if I use Grecian Formula is that a lie?


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Charlie KingRe: honesty:
by on Jan 28, 2003 at 5:02:10 pm

Martin,
I think you have stated what was said several times in another thread concerning knowledge of certain systems. It is the personality and enthusiasm that usually stands at the top of the list of assets for being hired. Experience can actually be a detriment sometimes. I know that for a fact. I was out of work for 3 years because everyone thought I would be far too expensive to hire. Over 40 years experience is not necessarily a great asset. Hmmmmm could age have been a factor also?

Charlie


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Martin RowellRe: honesty:
by on Jan 28, 2003 at 9:11:24 pm

Hmmmmm could age have been a factor also?

Duh....!

Hopefully I'll be relocating in the DC area in the spring. I'm already re-writing my resume to exclude dates, (that nice award in 1976 isn't as nice in 2003). And, as much as it pisses me off, I am seriously considering the dye job.

(This was a long rant that didn't make it to the final cut.)

Anyway, I'll just keep buying lotto tickets.


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grinnerRe: honesty:
by on Jan 29, 2003 at 3:01:47 am

coloring your hair is a lie too.
buzz your melon and get it over with, man


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Rick KellerRe: Getting to do something you have never done before.
by on Jan 29, 2003 at 2:01:40 pm

Anyone that I have ever interviewed or hired gets a real world test. For an AV tech job, I would pile a bunch of equipment in a room and tell an applicant to hook it up to play a video in less than 10 minutes. It took about 5 seconds to see who was telling the truth on their resume and who was BSing.

One editing job I applied for out of college was interesting - The boss took my name and phone and threw my resume in the trash. He handed me several tapes, shoved me in a room with editing gear, and said, "Make me something to air. You have 30 minutes. The best tape gets the job." By the time I figured out how to make the first edit, time was up. I didn't get the job (if you were wondering!) If I had to do the same thing 15 years later, I would blow the guy away with what I can produce in 30 minutes.

The moral of the story is: People lie. Companies lie. Actions tell the truth. Don't BS people and set yourself up to be humiliated. Learn the trade and demonstrate your skills. It works.

Rick Keller
A-1 Productions


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grinnerRe: Getting to do something you have never done before.
by on Jan 31, 2003 at 10:57:17 pm

funny.
I once had a 'real world test' making a tour spot for Kidd Rock. I guess I passes because after hackin for 4 hours, they dubbed it and shipped it out. I would have sent em an invoice but they hired me...
dammit.


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Patrick GregstonRe: Getting to do something you have never done before.
by on Jan 29, 2003 at 5:50:02 pm

Ok, everybody agrees not to lie, and yes you have to be patient. But the question was how do you get to step up?
What are the things you do to get the experience you don't have?
How do you get the picture editing job when you haven't had one?
How do you get trusted to run a session when you haven't ever done one? or never done one at that level?
How do you get the chance to prove you have creative chops when all you can show on a reel are shows where you assisted or had tech or organizational responsibilities?



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grinnerRe: Getting to do something you have never done before.
by on Jan 31, 2003 at 10:58:50 pm

Call a local post house and get time on their gear for free. They often don't mind in off hours or when not booked so they can add to their freelance pool should you shine.

grin


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mak1Re: Getting to do something you have never done before.
by on Jan 30, 2003 at 1:49:15 am

How about letting 'em know you're interested and hoping for luck? I once got offered a job that I thought I was qualified for but had no real experience in because the guy that had the job before got in a car wreck. They needed someone fast. (For the record, I had already left town in search of greener pastures and couldn't take the job). Or doing something to put on your reel that shows you can do it. Maybe you have to come in after hours (like, sure, you've got time) and get on the equipment when no one else is there. And I don't think lying is good, but embellishment and enhancement is what it's all about....


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