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16.9 problem Please Please help.

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Niall Mc Gowan16.9 problem Please Please help.
by on Oct 15, 2001 at 10:46:00 pm

Hi my name is Niall and I run a small production company . We recently decided to go widescreen . We use a uvw 1800 sony Beta sp recorder, and I need to know if my capture card can output 16.9 can i record 16.9 onto bata sp. I will be outputting through component outputs. Some people say no as 16.9 is a digital aspect ratio and so an anolog format will not handel it, are they right? Please help i told the boss it could be done and he went and spent alot of money on a new capture board, but we will be keeping our trusty uvw 1800 beta sp deck. Thank you in advance.



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Bobby Walker IIRe: 16.9 problem Please Please help.
by on Oct 16, 2001 at 1:48:28 am

I afraid you may be SOL on this one Niall. I just played with one of our old decks at the station and can seem to get nothing but 4x3 out of it. Note however that I don't ever use 16x9 and was experimenting so I could be (I hope for your sake) wrong. Hang on and someone will be sure to chime in on the topic.

In the meanwhile I'll keep testing and will keep you informed as needed.

Good Luck

bobby walker ii
co(w)-host Broadcast Video


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Niall Mc GowanRe: 16.9 problem Please Please help.
by on Oct 16, 2001 at 9:57:55 am

Thank you bobby for you speedy reply I have also tryed to get 16.9 out with no luck . A second test please if you could. try to get it to record 16.9 . If we cant get it to play 16.9 maybe we can get it to record 16.9 after all the frame size is the same ( 720 x 576) the only difference is the pixel aspect ratio. Thank you Niall mc Gowan.


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Bobby Walker IIRe: 16.9 problem Please Please help.
by on Oct 16, 2001 at 6:14:25 pm

Hey Niall--using a 16x9 movie created in After Effects and then placed in Media 100 at 16x9--could not get UVW 1800 to record in 16x9. It gives me a full screen 4x3 picture. I played with all the settings I could think of on the UVW and no go my friend.

I hope someone can come up with a better answer for you!

Sorry and Good Luck

bobby walker ii


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Erik BurkeRe: 16.9 problem Please Please help.
by on Oct 16, 2001 at 6:21:50 pm

I would think this is more dependent upon your video card than the deck.

However, as 16x9 on a 4x3 format is simply squeezed info, you would not be losing that much by simply matting your full frame 4x3 video for layoff to BetaSP.

You might also consider that with MPEG2 compression and a DVD burner you could conceivably deliver your widescreen media without forking out for a 4:2:2 digital deck and save your bucks for HD hardware in the future.

Erik


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Bruce RawlingsRe: 16.9 problem Please Please help.
by on Oct 16, 2001 at 6:51:09 pm

I may be missing the point but surely any machine will record 16-9. The the widescreen camera pictures goes into the edit computer and then come out finished, all in anamorphic. The tape deck records it squeezed and the monitors switched to 16-9 will view at the correct aspect ratio.
If it is to be viewed on a 4X3 monitor it will need to be arced and will the be a 16-9 letterbox ratio.


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Niall Mc GowanRe: 16.9 problem Please Please help.
by on Oct 16, 2001 at 8:41:44 pm

Thanks Bruce for the post I feel you may be spot on. Have you tryed to record 16.9 onto beta sp.


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Rodney KingI've recorded 16:9 on Beta
by on Oct 17, 2001 at 1:33:39 am

My BVW-D600WS Beta SP camcorder will record in both 4:3 and 16:9 ratios, so certainly you should be able to record 16:9 on your Beta deck.

I believe Bruce's point is correct: the recording format doesn't matter: if you lay 16:9 down on tape, it will play back 16:9. Beta, VHS, U-Matic...it shouldn't make a difference.

One word of caution, though: Once you've laid the video down in the 16:9 mode on Beta, you cannot convert it to letterboxed 4:3. Sony warns against it with the 600, recommendinh a digital tape format (such as DigiBeta) if you want to do this. I had a test done on an AVID...and when you attempt to convert the Beta 16:9 to letterboxed 4:3...the image quality totally goes to an unusable level.


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Niall Mc GowanRe: I've recorded 16:9 on Beta
by on Oct 17, 2001 at 9:17:02 am

Thank you Rodney you post is very encourageing and it is what i hoped to here. Again Thank you. Niall


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David McSweenRe: I've recorded 16:9 on Beta
by on Nov 1, 2001 at 10:24:51 am

Hey all,
Yes widescreen is just an anamorphic 4:3 picture. Infact it is refered to as "16:9 Full Height" as opposed to "16:9 letterbox", which is just a masked 16:9 picture into 4:3 area.

The reason that it has arrived with digital is that digital is the only way you should record it (any digi format). As SP doesn't have the resolution to handle the anamorphic squeeze. SP's chroma bleed and cross talk all conspire to give you dirty edges on your pictures.

You really shouldn't archive 16:9FH onto analogue formats. And I seriously doubt that you should use it as a delivery format. If you doubt me, check out the actual horizontal resolution of SP compared to digi formats. There is about 50 more lines of picture information not including all the horrible analogue artifacts.

Sorry
David.


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Bruce RawlingsRe: I've recorded 16:9 on Beta
by on Oct 20, 2001 at 6:37:48 pm

The reason the picture is not that good is down to the quality of the Avid squeeze effect. We always hire in a good quality ARC and convert to Beta SX or Digibeta via the SDI output. The quality is then the best that can be achieved.


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Bruce RawlingsRe: 16.9 problem Please Please help.
by on Oct 19, 2001 at 8:46:23 pm

For the record I have recorded anamorphic 16-9 to SP and DVCAM and VHS! The monitor does the work of unsqueezing the picture afterwards. The only thing my Avid does in 16-9 mode is do titles in the correct mode and give me 16-9 monitor windows on the computer displays.


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Niall Mc GowanRe: 16.9 problem Please Please help.
by on Oct 20, 2001 at 10:43:37 pm

Thank you Bruce . I am very happy to hear that. I have just moved over to 16.9 and boy it takes a bit of time to get your head arround it, and it does not help having the BOSS over your shoulder when you are in controlled panic mode. I also work in Adobe AE and can remember the first time I opened a new 16.9 comp, it dident look right it looked 4.3 and so that put me into panic mode for a while. God bless these forums because you cannot go to an Adobe manual for help.


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Niall Mc GowanRe: 16.9 problem Please Please help.
by on Oct 16, 2001 at 8:38:53 pm

Hi Eric We a hopeing to output our work in 16.9 for use on tv as 10 or 15 second ads and TV graphics. Do you think a TV station would OR could take our work on DVD ? It is a new avenue for us and we dont want to look foolish at the stations. The normal form of delivery is the mighty expensive Digi Beta.


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Erik BurkeRe: 16.9 problem Please Please help.
by on Oct 17, 2001 at 5:05:44 pm

Yeah, you're probably right, especially considering that quite a few stations are still using 3/4". But if they are broadcasting 16x9 digital, then I would think they would know a way. Have you talked to their tech folks? They might help you find a way.

If you're talking a network or cable station, they will have a spec sheet you can refer to, yes? Still, I would think letterboxing a spot would be acceptable for most venues. Digital broadcasting is still in its infancy, as only 19 people can afford the wide screen tv's anyway.

If worse comes to worse, you can rent the dbeta deck for a day and print to that, or you can sub a posthouse to import your dvd's mpeg2 and print it to tape. Once you have your dbeta master, you can clone it at any decent dub house.

Still, I think the other posts have merit. I would think that you should be able to put an anamorphically compressed component video program onto any tape format. But then of course the higher definition widescreen digital signal would reveal the limitations of the format you use, even if you dub it to dbeta for delivery.

Enough rambling. Let us know what you figured out.

Erik


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Niall Mc GowanRe: 16.9 problem Please Please help.
by on Oct 17, 2001 at 10:39:55 pm

Eric Thanka For your time . There is some heavy testing going on right now and we are looking to the teckies in the stations for advice. They say DVD is not an option and I cannot understand it because all the majors capture there ads and promos and play them as mpg files, there is no tape involed. Here in the EU all the major stations TX there ads in 16.9 and they will not be fooled by letterboxing because there standerds are so high. So WE the small guy need to find a way to deliver 16.9 on our uvw 1800 without haveing to pay 28 thousend for Digi beta. One plan we have is to output to Dvcam or Dvc pro and then dub to dbeta ? But I still feel and keep my fingers crossed I can deliver 16.9 on beta sp . I am doing tests at the weekend with a project of circuls and squairs and will output and then test at a local station. I will let you know. Thank you , Niall ( the small guy on a mission)


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Niall Mc GowanRe: 16.9 problem Please Please help.
by on Oct 16, 2001 at 8:32:25 pm

Thank you Bobby . There is a reply further down of great interest it says /////I may be missing the point but surely any machine will record 16-9. The widescreen camera pictures goes into the edit computer and then come out finished, all in anamorphic. The tape deck records it squeezed and the monitors switched to 16-9 will view at the correct aspect ratio.
If it is to be viewed on a 4X3 monitor it will need to be arced and will the be a 16-9 letterbox ratio.//// I will rush to try it, Bobby were you looking at the image on a 16.9 monitor and was it still squashed. ?


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