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What is difference between Smoke/Fire and Flame/Flint and Inferno

COW Forums : Discreet Smoke

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freak4everWhat is difference between Smoke/Fire and Flame/Flint and Inferno
by on Aug 27, 2004 at 4:50:50 am


I do not understand the position of so many similar products from one company.

Can someone help me understand:

1. What Smoke and Fire are used for? What is the difference between the two?

2. What Flame and Flint are used for? What is the difference between the two?

3. Is Inferno a combination of Smoke/Fire and Flame/Flint?

4. What happened to older Discreet systems like effect, paint, edit etc.? Are they all combined in Combusion 3.0 ?

I have read the discreet's brochures time and again. but still i can't make out the difference among this products.

And I am really very very curious to know more about these systems.


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Steven BradfordRe: What is difference between Smoke/Fire and Flame/Flint and Inferno
by on Aug 27, 2004 at 10:17:07 am

I feel your Pain. Discreet is particularly bad at describing their in house developed products.

The differences seem to fall in two areas, what type of work done, and what system it is done on.

Smoke and Fire are Edit applications. Flame, Flint and Inferno are Effects and compositing solutions.

Mainly they run on SGI systems. So the big differrence between Flint Flame and Inferno are what box they use.
Inferno, for the most part just seems to be faster Flame. There are some additional features.

Smoke can run on both SGI, and on a Linux box now.

That's real basic until someone who can really give you the straight scoop answers.

Steven Bradford


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Chris HansonRe: What is difference between Smoke/Fire and Flame/Flint and Inferno
by on Aug 27, 2004 at 1:38:38 pm

Many of the original differences between smoke/fire and flame/inferno were based on the sgi hardware they used.

As Steven pointed out, flint, flame & inferno are primarily visual effects systems while smoke & fire are more geared towards editing applications. Historically, it was the hardware platform that dictated a lot of the capabilities of say flint compared to inferno.
flint ran on the sgi O2 hardware and was locked down to a single processor focus on standard def video.
flame on Octane was dual proc hardware for SD & HD work
inferno on Onyx was 4 or more proc capable of 2K work
smoke on Octane - SD & HD video work
fire on Onyx - 2K film editing.

Because of Discreet's resolution independance philosophy, you could do 2K work on a flame, but not in realtime. In other words, there was no limit to the image size you could use in any discreet system but you had to accept the limitations of the sgi hardware for realtime functionality.
A lot of these "limitations" have now fallen away with the latest sgi hardware. flame on a 4P Tezro can handle realtime 2K film work for example.
That's about it in a nutshell. Don't get started on Discreet's infrastructure products (burn, backburner, backdraft etc) that's even more confusing :-)

Regards
Chris - Touchvision.



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Peter WikoffRe: What is difference between Smoke/Fire and Flame/Flint and Inferno
by on Aug 27, 2004 at 6:26:57 pm

As the previous two posts note, Discreet's marketing info (which has always been bad) doesn't always do a great job of explaining who each product is targeted. Skipping the hardware technical info, here is a basic breakdown of the software and their intended target application in the real world.

Inferno: High end effects system geared towards Film. Used because of its toolset, speed and power. Basically, if you want to do mainly feature film work, and pretty fast, this is your tool.

Flame: High end effects system that targets the broadcast and some of the film world. Flame is more commonly used for broadcast/commercial work because they do not need to go back to film and will most likely finish on tape.

Flint: Scaled down version of flame. Discreet doesn't offer all of the tools that you get with flame and inferno (3D motion tracking and a few other features). Flint is also well geared towards broadcast.

Of course with any of these systems you could do any format, (film on flint, broadcast on inferno, etc.) but trying to do 4K work with 30 layers in flint will not be tons of fun, and spending a couple hundred thousand to use inferno to type text on screen for cable access is a waste. All of these systems have some basic editing capabilities, but you wouldn't want do more than a few minutes worth in them.

As for Smoke and Fire, they are both designed to work as online finishing systems. You might edit your project on Avid with basic effects, but smoke and flame give you the ability to really step it up. They use many of the compositing tools that FFI use, but are limited (for example, Smoke does not offer expressions, not sure about Fire). No 3D motion tracking in smoke either. Think of these systems as replacements for something like an old CMX editor, they are just juiced up on steroids).

As for the other apps, combustion is Discreet's version of After Effects. The nice thing is, for a few hundred dollars you get the tracker and color corrector from ffi/sf and you can share this data. Think of combustion as your intern, and the other software as your main editor. BTW paint and effect were rolled into combustion. Edit was killed when discreet couldn't get it to keep up with the other systems it was competing with (Avid, Final Cut). They were trying to make edit/combustion into smoke lite. To bad they gave up on it.

To sum it up, Discreet names there software based on power Flint leads to Flame, Flame leads to Inferno, etc. Each step down limits some of the features, just like anything you buy. If you are interested in adopting any of Discreet’s systems, determine your needs, and then contact Discreet or one of their resellers and work with them to get the system that best meets those needs. If you just want to learn how to use them, combustion is a great starting point, there are still some major differences in the work flow, but the ideas are similar. It will get you used to the Discreet interface, which can be confusing and first, but will make the other systems easier to migrate into. Hope this clears up some of the mystery for you.

Cheers!


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freak4everRe: What is difference between Smoke/Fire and Flame/Flint and Inferno
by on Aug 28, 2004 at 4:06:50 am

thanks everyone. yes it really helped.


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Judy RanelliRe: What is difference between Smoke/Fire and Flame/Flint and Inferno
by on Aug 31, 2004 at 8:41:44 pm

Is there a demo version of Combustion I can play with?


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robert gregoryRe: What is difference between Smoke/Fire and Flame/Flint and Inferno
by on Sep 1, 2004 at 12:09:57 pm

Stupid question but did you visit discreet web site?

It is pretty clear what does what on http://www4.discreet.com/products/

Robert


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freak4everRe: What is difference between Smoke/Fire and Flame/Flint and Inferno
by on Sep 1, 2004 at 12:40:14 pm


i visited the discreet site before posting this question but the product boundries are too blurry for me to understand.


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maurice patelRe: What is difference between Smoke/Fire and Flame/Flint and Inferno
by on Sep 1, 2004 at 1:41:12 pm

It's actually quite simple:

inferno, flame, flint = Visual Effects
fire, smoke = editing & finishing

editing systems are designed to have a workflow based around a timeline
effects systems are designed to have a workflow based around batchflint and smoke SD = SD systems

flame and smoke HD = HD/2K systems

fire and inferno = high performance HD/2K systems

the creative feature set between fire and smoke is identical
The creative feature set between flame flint and inferno has some minor variations - inferno/flame are pretty much identical - flint has a few features less

fire and inferno are on the SGI onyx which allows much more interaction in graphics - They are also the most expandable in terms of I/O bandwidth and inter-system connectivity - They adress the needs of the larger facility that may need to handle multiple DI projects simultaneously for example







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Judy RanelliRe: What is difference between Smoke/Fire and Flame/Flint and Inferno
by on Sep 1, 2004 at 5:25:19 pm

What is the definition of 'batchflint'?


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maurice patelRe: What is difference between Smoke/Fire and Flame/Flint and Inferno
by on Sep 1, 2004 at 6:42:32 pm

for some reasom the carriage return did not carry thriygh to my post

should have read (with correct carriage returns and product names in bold)

editing systems are designed to have a workflow based around a timeline
effects systems are designed to have a workflow based around batch

flint and smoke SD = SD systems

flame and smoke HD = HD/2K systems

fire and inferno = high performance HD/2K systems


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