Is working uncompressed from beta sp really neccesary?

[Joel Pickford] "Working uncompressed means spending more money on storage (a robust, raided external drive array instead of cheaper firewire drives) and more money on a Cinewave instead of the lower priced AJA I/O."

You don't need to buy a Cinewave card to work with uncompressed video. Final cut can play up to 7 streams of uncompressed video captured through the Io. Last I looked the Cinewave only did 3, plus 2 graphics tracks. The Cinewave does have some advantages, but it's in need an expensive hardware update in the not to distant future. The Io probably won't need any major updates until Mac's have fast enough Firewire ports to support HD.

It you buy an Io and want to add HD later, you can always add a Kona or Decklink HD card. A very cost effective way to go. The Cinewave is very cool also, but be prepared to spend a great deal more to purchase it, update it, for tech support, and for additional features. You could probably buy a couple of Io's and Kona cards for the same price, plus updates and support would still be less.


Tony!

So AJA Io could capture 10 bit uncompresed video the same "quallity" as AJA Kona. But AJA Io do it through FireWare. What is the difference?

BOBO is 100% correct!!

[Joel Pickford] "Is an expensive, external raided drive array really neccessary to work uncompressed (the alternative being to use four 180GB internal drives and additional external firewire drives as needed)?"

It really depends on how much RT you want. Also, what would do when you upgrade to a G5? The 4 internal drives in a G4 won't work in a G5?

The Io does work fine on a G4, but you'll really want to move to a G5 as soon as possible to take full advantage of RT Extreme. I would go with an Expensive RAID (Huge, JBOD SCSI, Xserve) if you can. If not, go with the 4 internals until you update to the G5. Then you could go with 2 250gb SATA drives, or possibly one of the external SATA solutions that will be coming in the next few months.

Tony!

Many thanks for your advice on the G-4 with internal drives. Is there some reason that multiple ide drives cannot be installed in a G-5? Do 7200 rpm external firewire drives work as well as the internal ones?

Tony,

I recently set up my new G5 with 2 internal 250G drives and I'm running OSX off a TEMPO HD card with a Hitachi Travelstar Drive. This gives me 500 gigs to play with until next year's storage upgrade. The system's been up and running for a few days now with no problems... So Far, So Good!

This is good stuff on storage solutions for the G-4 and G-5. Keep it coming. I am really trying to sort this stuff out on my own, as sales people at ProMax and other dealers tend to push the most expensive solutions, even if they aren't really what someone needs.

My needs are as follows: I will be cutting feature length documentaries from beta sp source tapes. My editing ratio will be approximately 30:1+, so I assume I will have to digitize at lower res for cutting and then batch digitize the finished piece uncompressed (as I have previously using Media 100). I am not that concerned with real time effects, just image/sound quality and storage stability and effeciency. I also anticipate shooting my next documentary in HD, so I will require adequate hardware to meet that need within a year or so.

More advice on ways of configuring a system to meet these needs would be greatly appreciated. I tend to spend my time focused on my projects rather than reading up on the latest cards and storage options, so further advise and explanations will be most helpful.

Many thanks,
Joel

Ok, rereading your post I realize that you ARE recommending the AJA IO over that other capture card.

Regarding display, are non-Apple flat screen monitors compatible?

Joel

Tony,

I ran a test with some 10 bit uncompressed footage. I was able to layer 6 video clips before I needed to render. Being new to the Io world, I'm not sure if that's good, bad, or average with this (incredibly cool) system...

It sounds like I set up the test incorrectly. I digitized 10 bit uncompressed video. I inserted a 10 second clip on the first layer, and then scaled 5 additional layers over it. Besides the scaling, I didn't use any other effects. I didn't see the red render line until I added video on the 7th video track. These clips contained no audio.

My raided drives consist of 2 Western Digital 250GB Serial ATAs.

[Joel Pickford] "That's great. Very helpful. So you would go with that PCI card you mentioned over the AJA IO?"

It's a tough call, but I like the Io for most things. The Decklink does have advantages when it comes to previewing to a NTSC monitor from applications other than FCP. However, I would expect more features like this from AJA/Apple at NAB and beyond. Remember, Apple writes all the software (drivers, etc) for the Io as it was codeveloped by both company's.

[Joel Pickford] " thought of saving money on display by getting a couple of those $375 17" flat screens (or maybe the $600 19" models) that you see in mail order catalogues or at Fry's. I also need a new 12" NTSC monitor and thought about going with the much cheaper JVC instead of the standard Sony model. What do you think? "

I don't really have much of an opinion on the cheaper monitors. I've been fortunate enough to always have the high-end monitors. If you're doing this professionally, I don't believe this is an area I would skimp on. I would try to get at least the 14" Sony 600 line + NTSC monitor for video previewing.

Don't forget you'll need a good mixer, cables, blackburst, tbc, decks, etc. It's quite expensive to build up a pro system. I'm sure you must already have some of that from before.

Tony!

Joel, it's sounds like you've got a pretty good handle on everything. I remember reading some negative posts about the JVC monitors and that's why I'm cautious about them. I personally have no experience with them at all so you may want to ask on the FCP forum. Make sure they have all the i/o you need.

The Cinema displays are more than pretty to look at, they are very good monitors. However, I can see trying the less expensive one to save money for now. Most DVI and/or VGA monitors are going to work fine on new Mac. you may need an adapter if you're running more than one, but you can get that when you purchase you Mac. I would find some that you think might work and then search the Apple discussions forums to see if you can find any post from people having problems with that brand/model. http://discussions.info.apple.com/ or here's another good place for info: http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/

The built-in TBC on your deck should be fine, unless you need an external TBC for other sources such as 3/4" and VHS.

I agree with the Guitar Center racks. I have a couple I bought years ago for almost nothing that still hold everything just fine.

You might want to checkout Ebay as it is a very good source of used gear at much better prices than you'll get from a discount retailers. Of course, you have to be very careful, but I've been buying equipment on Ebay for years with no problems.


Tony!

It's a long list. I've got 3 FCP systems right now. One with an Io, one with a Decklink card, and one with the Cinewave. I've also got a Media 100i system. 2 of the systems are on Dual 2ghz G5's (Io and Cinewave) and the others are on various G4's. I have a Huge DualMax 1200 RAID, a Medea RAID, a DATA Direct RAID, and an older Megadrive RAID. I use the Sony NTSC monitors 20 4NU (if I remember correctly). I use the Cinema Displays (23" and 22") - they're awesome. I use Mackie HR 824 and Event 20/20 powered speakers. I use Mackie 1604 mixers. I have a Sony PD 150 video camera. DSR-1500, UVW 1800, BVU 800, Panasonic SV 3800, and various VHS decks (I rent Digibeta as needed). and tons of other stuff that is too much to list.

If I were to buy a new system it would probably be something like this:

• Latest top-of-the-line G5 (4gb memory, two 250 Hitachi or Maxtor SATA drives, ATI 9800 S video card).
• Firmtek's SATA PCI card to run the internal SATA drives.
• I probably use a Wiebetech Firewire drive for my OS X system startup drive.
• ATTO UL4D SCSI card (if needed)
• Two 23" Cinema Displays (unless Apple finally announces the 30" ones).
• A DSR 45 (or better) DV/DVCAM deck
• A UVW-1800 (or better) Beta SP deck
• An Xserve RAID (preferably fully loaded with the extra cache and drive). A very solid second choice would be the new Huge RAID's.
• NTSC monitor would be tough because I'd want an HD model, but the pricing on those… ouch. I'd have to research the latest models.
• Probably a Mackie mixer, but I'd have to get up-to-date on all the latest features of the new models before I could say which one.
• I love the Mackie HR824 powered speakers, so that would probably be my choice again..
• I like Asante network switches and Epson printers and scanners.
• I'd have to see what NAB brings for a new video camera and lights.
• The choice of capture device is really dependent on your needs. Right now today, I like the Io and the aging Cinewave. After NAB, I'll probably like the Io and the new Cinewave. But the Decklink cards are very good values, so I wouldn't rule them out. There are other company's that are not standing still either, so expect a couple of more possibilities soon.
• I'd also be looking carefully at HDV to see if it's time has come. If so, decks, camera's, and capture devices are worth researching.

My equipment is always in a constant state of change. There's really two ways to go about keeping a system running. Either you buy it and don't touch it again (no updates, etc) and run it into the ground). This is what many Avid editors have done over the years. Or you do what I do - update everything all the time. This is more costly and you will have some problems, but your capabilities and skills continue to grow.

I'm sure my list is one everyone can add to or change. I left out a lot of necessary items, so if you don't know what you need you probably should find a good VAR. There are several that post here regularly.

Hope that helps a little, expect changes after NAB.

Tony!

Many thanks, Tony!

Regarding the external TBC, what would be be some good models to look for on eBay? Unfortunately a lot of footage only exists on VHS and from time to time it becomes neccessary to use a bit of it. And speaking of VHS, what are some good, edit-quality, rack-mountable S-VHS decks? Can VHS also be brought in through the IO? Might it be better to simply dub VHS footage to beta sp and bring it in that way, eliminating the need for an external TBC?

Joel