tinkering with idea of making CMOS HD cam; what readout codex?
by Ed Brown
on
Apr 29, 2003 at 5:15:00 pm
Dear Wizards,
I am tinkering with idea of making a prototype CMOS HD cam.Hell, if it works make more. Something affordable that will not be obsolete like all CCD cams in short years.
Can get the CMOS sensors, 35 mm lens are readily available,
need a prism, but biggest challenge is compressing the 1 G/sec
read out in backend.
Obviously be nice to have Viper 4:4:4 read out which is partly compressed. Nice option.
But what would you recommend as other read outs that can be edited? What codexs? MPEG4? What would future proof camera
and still be feasible? Editable?
Ed
Re: tinkering with idea of making CMOS HD cam; what readout codex? by Joaquin (Kino) Gil on Apr 29, 2003 at 7:18:03 pm
My work deals mostly with effects and animation coexisting with live-action stuff. For that the 4:4:4 is so juicy...! If the thing could have a "gobble" mode, to spit RGBA's direct to disk, I'd want it.
I have seen the results of (tightly controlled, I am into animation after all) 720p and 1080p in plasma screens and have to admit that with good illumination the difference is less marked than one would think. So I'd want 720p as an alternative, and after the Panny, you want variable speed... with a sharper image.
But as far as real life and editability:
The existing pipelines would favor HDCam and DVC-ProHD besides the purely digital, like MPEG, simply because of existing onlines and offlines (setups). A point could be made that the formats will respond to the industry segment you want to tag and the price point(s) of the camera design, which could make DV50 and dv100 entries in your list, and even dv25.
Re: tinkering with idea of making CMOS HD cam; what readout codex? by Joaquin (Kino) Gil on Apr 29, 2003 at 7:21:03 pm
Why not a downloadable Codec? Why not have the camera really spit this u-tagged, RGBA stream with a master connector and have "user downloadable" codecs for recording and standard production? That would keep it current for quite a while.
Re: UNCOMPRESSED 2k p 4:4:4 should be no problem, other yes by Ed Brown on Apr 30, 2003 at 12:24:20 am
Dear Wizards,
I am not a techie, I work with techies. Now talking to CMOS engineers, I got impression that uncompressed 1080p plus at 4:4:4 is no problem. The problem is over 1 gig/sec readout. It could overwelm storage. Yes, it can be shot straight to disk. The Viper 4:4:4 cam uses,I think, 1:2.5 compression and Director Friend disks. Yes, we are not talking tapes here. Must be disks. Viper monator reads slightly green and must like film be processed for final images.
As i understand CMOS engineers, there are two problems: a prism to split light and the biggie: what do you want out back end
that video guys would like other that uncompressed? That is why I
ask you. There are people working on MPEG 2 and 4. Which is better? I confess to being ignorant. Ithink it was MAD who wrote:
'Why not a downloadable Codec? Why not have the camera really spit this u-tagged, RGBA stream with a master connector and have "user downloadable" codecs for recording and standard production? That would keep it current for quite a while."
If I understand that correctly, that could be like Avid's new
32? bit codex? And have a "card" you could insert another
codex or MPEG in for read out.
Help me what would make for "dream" video camera?
With CMOS sensors there is a paradyn shift in possible images.
Question is what "read outs" would be most useful?
Ed --not all clear on concept of data out --- but clear there must be a way for a very affordable camera with 1080P images
at 24, 30, 60 and 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 with edit friendly read out
does this make sense for readout? by Ed Brown on Apr 30, 2003 at 12:55:57 am
Does this makes sense?
gmasonmd wrote me on another forum:
So when you build your 2k or 4k CMOS HD camera, FCP4(Apple said the codecs in FCP4 are better still than in FCP3, and comparable to any other high-end system....why was Marco chuckling over Avid's 6figure DNA editing systems?) is already set up to do 32bit RT editing of your next project, next year on a G5 Apple workstation.
Re: does this make sense for readout? by Bob Bonniol on Apr 30, 2003 at 1:26:19 am
That is absolute pure (wild) speculation. Most of the big editing choices are just now solidly moving into 10bit... I find it EXTREMELY hard to imagine that Apple is somhow ready to roll out 32bit image processing in a wide way next year. In fact with Pixar's retooling into an intel/linux based installation, and with Apple's well recorded difficulties with Motorola, I'll be curious to see if we get G5's at all, as opposed to some kind of Mac/Itanium box. But I'll take odds against Apple's ability to process 32bit 4:4:4 HD/Film media in RT with FCP4 next year.
Best,
BB
Creative Director
Mode Studios / Monarch Designs
www.monarchdesigns.com
Art of the Edit Forum Leader
Wizards, take look at Jean's suggested "Sheer" Good for dream cam? by Ed Brown on Apr 30, 2003 at 9:42:53 am
Dear Wizards,
Dream camera needs to process googles of data. Check out this and what do you think?
Ed
"SheerVideo™ is a faster-than-real-time, powerful, perfect-fidelity QuickTime video codec (patents pending).
By storing in Sheer™ format instead of uncompressed formats such as D1 or Cineon, you can:
double your disk capacity
double your disk speed
double your transmission speed by compressing on the fly even over dedicated gigabit Ethernet or OC-24 optical link
maintain absolutely perfect fidelity, every single bit in the restored image identical to the original
For example, SheerVideo lets your favorite video editor automatically pack 10GB of uncompressed video into 4.5GB of SheerVideo on disk and perfectly restore it on the fly faster than real time. This means you can store all your working and production video assets in Sheer format without compromise.
Sheer Versatility: Film & CGI (RGB[A] 8b) and Video (Y'CBCR[A] 8b 4:4:4[:4], 4:2:2; progressive, interlaced; SD, HD)
Sheer Speed: 100MB/s on a 1GHz G4 -- 50X faster than any other perfect-fidelity codec -- on the fly
Sheer Power: 2.2X smaller files on typical high-detail real-world footage (e.g. Kodak PhotoCD PCD0992)
Sheer Fidelity: 100% exact duplicate of original after restoration"
Mads, all dream cameras are cheaper, better, faster! This could be real. by Ed Brown on Apr 30, 2003 at 4:07:18 pm
Dear Mads,
CMOS sensors are not controled by the Japanse monopoly and their associated suppliers. With CMOS sensors it is possible to get far better images faster at cheaper prices than Sony controlled CCD's.
With that better/ best given, the challenge is how to engineer the camera. Biggest challenge is processing data from CMOS sensors. That an a good prism to split light.
And since this is dream camera, might as well design this for HD and perhaps two editing solutions: HD 1080 plus at 4:4:4 and
more standard 4:2:2 at HD.
Idea is togowhere no video camera has before. To make camera that if you invest $25,000 it will not be obsolete in two years.
To perhaps design it so can upgrade the back end data processors. For lens, frame and prism are fairly well developed.
Hey, in this dream camera, perhaps, we should be able to even upgrade the CMOS sensors.
So toanswer your question: yes, cheaper, faster, better and easily upgradable.
That is why Iam asking you, the end users, what you would want.
My sense is the existing camera manufactors like Ikie and JVC are planning new CMOS cameras. But they may botch it like JVC did with HD cam with 30P, 24p. Also, when the critical CMOS can be bought for sales tax, it should be possible to build a much cheaper camera with 20% built in for research and development for
constant improvements that are upgradable to existing cams.
Re: all dream cameras could be real. by Mads on Apr 30, 2003 at 4:31:29 pm
Hey Ed.
That all sounds like a very beatiful thought!
However, I see nothing new in your proposal that is going to change the world of HD.
Before making it "Gods gift to HD productions", you will need to make it practical! And with that you will need to consider size, noise, heat, lenses, filters, viewfinder and recording media.
Rather than try and create something that in 3-5 years time will match what is today, you must go for something new & better.
Why not 4K resolution?
How about 1000 frames a second?
Re: all dream cameras could be real. by Darby Marriott on May 1, 2003 at 2:16:33 am
OK to help Ed out, here are some possibilities for his dream camera:
-Direct to RAM recording to cache a small amount of high bandwidth video (enough to do an average length take)
-An on camera removable Serial ATA drive (300GB+) would record the data off of the RAM cache as fast as it could as soon as the recording has begun.
-Transfer to the hard drive is completed in downtime between takes or aborted if desired.
-Before next recording, video can be played back from RAM cache for review.
-Video can be recalled from the hard drive and loaded into RAM cache for review
-Next recording overwrites data on RAM cache.
-When full, the hard drive is replaced.
-Real time lossless data compression could be applied before the video is written to RAM to extend recording times (Sheer?)
-Optional codec wrappering could be applied to video to support popular editing systems (Blackmagic/AJA, Cinewave, Quantel, AVID, Discreet, etc)
while video is being transfered to hard disk
-Optional integrated real time hardware chroma keyer would allow alpha channel recording (4:4:4:4 RGB or 4:2:2:4 YUV) for easier review and posting of VFX
-Optional tethered hard disk array to allow for longer takes
-Support for any resolution up to 4K and infinite frame rates (any duration time lapse to extreme slo-mo capture to extend application use outside Digital Cinematography)
Re: Eric, non moving storage = silent? by Eric Susch on May 3, 2003 at 4:08:12 am
From the info at the site it doesn't look like it's available yet but something like this (I'm sure smaller in the future) is definitely the way to go...
Re: Darby, that ACCOM system looks good. by Joaquin (Kino) Gil on Apr 30, 2003 at 5:18:30 pm
Hey, Ed-
It's me, the guy of the downloadable codec and 4:4:4:4 stream ;)
You do not need an accom. Check out Huge storage or Medea. Way cheaper and capable of very high bandwidth.
It seems to me that you can go the Viper weay, extremely high end and requiring extremely high end peripherals, or leverage current technology to make something that has wider appeal.
Re: Darby, that ACCOM system looks good. by Darby Marriott on Apr 30, 2003 at 6:09:09 pm
Don't forget, you'll still need some embedded file system to wrapper and/or compress the raw video into actual files to use on off the shelf drives. Direct to disk DV recorders are using this type of purpose built file system but they have an easy pre-encoded DV stream to handle, not a raw 4:4:4 HD digital video stream. You'll also want to make sure you are looking at full 10bit codecs, not just 8bit. Would be cool if the Sheer engine could handle the extra bits.
Re: Kino and Darby: need both solutions by Ed Brown on May 1, 2003 at 2:19:34 pm
okay i will try again. Need uncompressed HD and Darby's sugestion: of something to "wrap" data so can use for less ambitious editing.
I have emailed Sheer but no reply.
However, I think getting close to tech needed.
Thanks
ED
I will talk to CMOS engineers tomorrow
Re: Kino and Darby: need both solutions by Joaquin (Kino) Gil on May 1, 2003 at 8:35:13 pm
As far as wrappers, the most popular is probably QuickTime, which allows for a fascinating variety of compression resolutions and methods. It would serve for anything 4:2:2 and lower.
OMF, DPS and Media100 are other popular wrappers that come to mind.
Re: humor me, how get Quicktime wrapper? by Joaquin (Kino) Gil on May 2, 2003 at 12:33:38 am
Check out the Apple Website. They are the ones in everything Quicktime. Check out places live Digital Magic and Sonic foundry, who do use wrappers in their applications.
Re: humor me, how get Quicktime wrapper? by gmasonmd on May 2, 2003 at 7:19:00 am
Ed, been reading up on your fantasy, dreamy camcorder. You've made the leap from the JVC 500 to wanting 4:2:2 uncompressed digital, all the way up to 4:4:4 uncompressed, at 2K HD no less! Lusting away, Micheal Douglas is on his 2nd family with a lustfully beautiful Catherine Zeta Jones, who is more than 20 years younger than him. So that means when I'm in my 50's, Dark Angel's hottie, Jessica Alba, will be divorced just in time for me to marry her? Oh, maybe that tall, slinky, brown skinned kind-of-Asian-looking beauty in the over used teenage/immature overacted OB tampon commercial(model/actress Tamara Feldman, mother is part Cherokee/Mexican...father, must be Jewish), who does that bite the lower lip smile(done to perfection on an episode of Smallville, where she played a ridiculously silly caricature of a Native American...but I still want her, damn she's hot!) coquettish seductive look...maybe she'll be divorced and in her late 20's too....lust away.
Seriously, Ken Stone, who takes all of the digital photos of the lafcpug meetings, with a pro Nikon digicam; is older than I; but we both know of the famed f64 club, and that of Ansel Adams work. We both love super high resolution, super sharp images like that which images, the artistry of Ansel Adams, were recorded with 4 x 5 view cameras. You read about how Scott Billips used to visit in the area of Japan where the latest technological electronic toys of tomorrow are being produced/prototyped? You see that Billips used a Mac many years ago to make his own home made camcorder/hard drive system? But while it could be possible, Billips does not make such a camcorder now, when there are people with far greater engineering capabilities, as far as camcorder design/feasibility who can do the job much better. You want to put the cart before the wheel, in a manner of speaking; but I think the big guns over in Asia have these prototypes in developmental stages, and as soon as they see the "need" for producing such a device(allowing for newer technologies that allow for an "all in one" camcorder), we shall see them step in and squash like a bug, the smaller upstart companies now producing these very limited market high-end camcorders. I know, you want the $25,000 SD Panasonic everyone was drooling over at NAB 2003, to be a HD, and 2k, and 4:4:4...well that will probably happen in the not too distant future, either at NAB 2004 or 2005; if not sooner. Unless you have hundreds of thousands to spend on R&D, you'll probably spend much more time on this obsession, such that by the time something gets produced...it will be after the announcements by the "big guns" of Asia have beaten you to the starting line with a much more efficient, feature rich alternative. Reality time :)
But I admire your enthusiasm(and frustration/disgust with the costs of acquisition and post production...it's all coming down fast, just not fast enough for most of us on a budget, regardless of what our budget is). Just make sure you get your movie onto screen sometime in the not too distant future? Keep in mind what Marco Solorio says on his codec's comparison page where he discusses the beta (surely by next year it will be full 32bit capable?) version of bizjazz's 'Sheer'.....: http://www.onerivermedia.com/codecs
Quality is cool,... Content is King!
Tamara Feldman, I lust for from afar, I want to get into her pants, she's incredible...or is she? She's a total guy magnet, could just be a self-centered, problematic woman with her own eccentricities and peculiarities that I just don't care for once I get to know her; perhaps she's really a self-absorbed bitch; instead of a thoughtful, sublime, considerate, selfless sweetie, complimentary to my own personality. Well content is king, and any o'l tall, slinky, Cherokee/Mexican/Jewish woman is fine for me; I'll want to get into her pants; if and only if she has a terrific personality...content is king. So will your homemade HD camcorder be of so many compromises, eccentricities/peculiarities, that it will always/must necessarily miss the spot. Notice how Billips liked the slightly less expensive Panasonic on his website compared to the Sony HD cam? Why? Because he gets his work all done faster, that of the feel, that total balance(content is king), every control where he wants it to be without having to think about it, not so complicated with a billion and one menus of arcane/difficult to setup adjustments... eccentricities/peculiarities.
As far as having enough affordable CPU power to edit such uncompressed HD material, I think it is more than speculation, more like a 'given' by next year. Bob Bonniol is one of those neigh sayers of Apple. They forever bring up the Motorola chip yield problems with the years old G4 chips that were stuck at 500Mhz. Get over that already, the current G4 DP 1.42Ghz is not as fast as the fastest Windows Intel/AMD workstation, but that's a moot point, they are 32bit CPUs. Mac OSX 10.3 coded named Panther is scheduled to ship sometime around this September. It is designed for the new 64bit CPU code named G5, which if rumors are correct, will be based on an IBM variation of one of their high-end chip architectures. While the Motorola and IBM jointly developed G3 chips are in the iBook, Motorola could not get their act together in time, and had publicly stated that they had only designed the G3 family to top out at 500Mhz. Today the iBook is shipping with IBM G3 chips at 900Mhz. The rumored IBM G5 chip is said to start at the low-end around 1.8Ghz. Whether or not Motorola or IBM produce the G5 chip, the G5 will have substantially more processing power being fully 64bit in nature, and if there be a 4 processor G5 desktop, you can be sure, and updated FCP will be coded to take advantage of that. Now Apple sales of their desktops are lagging, and they out of necessity, need to produce a G5 desktop long before next year's NAB 2004. Expect dual or quad processor G5 desktops by then at or above 2Ghz; enough to do that 32bit HD RT that FCP4(which maybe at FCP5 by next year) is already coded for. Pixar's multi-hundred Pentium rendering farm setup is for state of the art animation projects; got nothing to do with what we are talking about here. Unless Ed is planning to do his own, Monsters Inc. part III. Irrelevant and moot point to bring up Steve Job's other company's endeavors. Isn't Lawrence Livermore Labs. using multi-thousand Pentium setup to do simulated nuclear testing? What's that got to do with ability for a quality FCP codec to process simple uncompressed HD, maybe not 7-8 streams of video at once...NAB2005? Academy Award winner Walter Murch used a 4 desktop Apple G4 DP workflow system designed by Digital Film Tree, which cost an unheard of $100,000; to do the editing of the major $150 million studio release 'Cold Mountain'...those being only 1Ghz machines. Will you be able to tell the difference between the 35mm film editing between that movie and that done by Walter Murch on a much more expensive Avid setup for the 'English Patient'? Go see the movies and decide for yourself. Will Walter Murch edit; an HD digital movie shot with a DALSA 4K, on a G5/FCP5 setup next year...who knows?
But if Ed really wants to try and build a better bread box, perhaps simple CMOS chips should be reconsidered. New Fuji digicams have more 'film like' dual imaging chips. More accurate color(if you must use a film like gamma color setting//shift, then that is your choice in the camera setup menus), along with film resolution AND latitude/dynamic range....if you're going to the trouble of making the ultimate HD setup, correct? Fuji's 4th generation CCD's, http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1043202460.html
I'm just wondering if the big boys over there in Asia, are already hard at work on these already? I mean, you haven't seen the flash memory camcorder in production yet, but a few of the prototypes were shown at NAB 2003. You haven't seen an OLED display, in a super thin notebook computer yet, but Toshiba already has a working prototype. Don't you think they already have working prototypes of something like you are discussing building now, which will take how many months of refinement, changes in design; before you have a working example? By the time you come out with your finished product using some of last year's(currently on the market) technology; Panasonic uses up to the minute technology, including array of higher capacity flash memory(which you have no access to quantity discount for another year); to build an affordable(well, $25,000-50,000 or so) version of what you are talking about?
CMOS are radical tech. Cost about $3000. ChallengeCCD interests by Ed Brown on May 2, 2003 at 11:23:10 am
Dear Gmasonmd,
yes I am a dreamer --- I want to make movies. But if I am going to go to problem of doing major plot in Siberia and Grosse Pointe, and fuss with actors ---- hell truth is I am on a mission from God. So why get rational? I got Oscar Plot, I got woman who makes your fantasy women insignificant. This gal has charm. Great face and inflections. Never acted but she is a woman.They are always acting. I am not sure she can do lines.
First, I will have her do improv, I set scene and we take many takes. Film is too costly for many takes. So yes, I drool at $25,000 pany Bessie winner but I am frugal. Will spend money, but want value. Do not want it to be obsolete in two years.
I have been following CMOS for two years. CCD are obsolete. Even
JVC's toy CMOS looks good. So being a curious cat, I call up CMOS.
Bingo. 3 CMOS I could have next to my computer on Monday cost $3000 and are better than $100,000 Sony CCD's!!!!!!!!!
Since I am on a mission from God (like Blues Brothers)I know He
works in mysterious ways. I am open to new paths.
CMOS guy tells me JVC and Ikie are coming out with CMOS cams
at end of year for about $35,000. He says Sony/Mats? CCD chip makers and their K?suppliers do not like to see their whole
supply base made obsolete. Japanese, like Billups says, like to keep things doled out and controlable. That is why their economoy has been in 10 year slump.
Okay, I ask if CMOS cam costs $35,000 and chip cost $3000 what the hell is the other $32,000 for?
Better yet, what kind of CMOS camera do we get for $35,000? JVC makes a HD cam that will not do 24P!
I ask CMOS guy what are challenges to making a CMOS cam? Lens are a given, camera frame is tricky but not frontier stuff. CMOS guy says getting a good prism to split light into RGB and processing 1 gig/sec on back end. He says data processing is what is keeping DALSA 4k cam from being usable. For CMOS cam to work must be able to have editable output.
Then he says something profound. CMOS camera makers really do not know their market.It is good that guys like me push for better faster cheaper cameras. So I come up with two plans:
Plan A: organize market. Find out what smart guys like in this forum want and need. Then when there is a consenus we as a group
approach JVC or IKie and say for $20,000 each we will take a CMOScam that can do:???? Say: 2K 4:2:2 at all kinds of 24p, 60i. And of course 4:4:4 read out.
plan B: make the damnthing. I am a Producer,not a techie, my skill is assembling talent. So if Sheer can handle data stream or someother system, this may be feasible.
Look at it this way: I see no reason that an end user designed
camera can not be built. Something that is modular, so can be
updated as tech improves. Something that outputs edit frendly
data that can be changed as tech improves, and something 4:4:4 for Kino who likes uncompressed.
A end user designed camera would not have like now planned obsolence, but planned updateability.
What makes the Sony's so powerful? Of course, great engineering.
But they also make the CCD chips. However, CMOS chips bypass this stranglehold. It is like when European "Tall Ships" bypassed
Moslem overland routes to EAST to get spices. CMOS is new reality.
So let's review feasibility: lens are available, somewhere there is a prism, the CMOS cost $3000 by Monday, and somewhere there are open market back end data engineers maybe like Sheer or somebody else who can make the CMOS data usable with options.
CMOS guy says many are working on this. All that is needed is
actual camera frame maker to assemble this. if you keep it simple with all manual controls like pros like except for back end switches this should not be too difficult. Especially for a dreamer on a mission from God,
Ed
Re: CMOS are radical tech. Cost about $3000. ChallengeCCD interests by gmasonmd on May 4, 2003 at 10:16:58 am
Ok, SD today with Cinewave4 and FCP4 this June; 4:4:4 32bit HD by next June with FCP4/Cinewave4, HD option, better than 50/50 chance; done on a DP or QP IBM G5 chipped Apple Desktop....notebook to follow, later 2004.
Subject:
Unannounced CineWave 4 features -- you read it here first!
A cowboy at Pinnacle just permitted me to post the following newsflash, and I'm doing it now in the middle of the night to liven up the house (it's been kind of slow on this board lately). Let's see if you can digest this, while I chow down a quesadilla and some milk:
We will be offering support for DV50, Apple Live Type and the generic animation codec. Yes, this means you will now be able to capture into DV50 and use real-time effects with DV50 in its' own sequence and/or mixed with PhotoJPEG, DV25, 8, 10 and/or 16-bit and RGBA. You will also be able to play out LiveType clips without having to render them in Final Cut Pro. How does that sound?
I think that's excellent news! Realtime DV50 effects is something new, and hasn't been talked about before.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
jean-yves,
after 1/2 bottle of Williams-Selyem 1995 Hirsh vineyard Pinot Noir, the following inspirational bit of non-sense transpired. Tests and conclusions page for various Fuji S2 SuperCCD's, Kodak 14M pixel CMOS, Canon 11M pixel CMOS , and Sigma SD9 w/Foveon 3-color pixel chip, digicams .
?Mission from God?? Tongue ?n cheek, yes Ed? So you think CCD?s are monopolized by the big electronics firms? X-Files conspiracy happening here? And you are going to build your own, going on Jihad against the ?axis of evil? in Asia? Oh, but those newer and more powerful computers, brighter displays are all now being mostly subcontracted out by the Japanese or Korea electronics companies, to lower cost manufacturing plants in China. It?s just the trend of global economy?too late to stop that now. Is it only because Billips can rely on high-profile employment opportunities, that he does not build his own? I read or heard some criticism of the Sony PD150?s shortcomings in the images recorded by Billips for David Lynch?s PlayStation 2 TV commercial. But that is what Lynch wanted, as Billips had the high-end Sony 900HD camera there and ready to shoot with that.
Radical tech? No, I don?t think so. CMOS technology has been around for quite awhile, just new to consumer imaging chips. LED?s(despite the fact that they look ugly, sort of like the Christmas tree effect you see on some automobiles/taxies/pickup trucks in Mexico) are now the current fad for rear brake lights on automobiles. OLED displays soon to show up on notebook computers, like CMOS, draw less power. But they are more evolutionary developments of existing technology applied in a new way for economical production techniques. Holographic storage and later on into the future, CPU designs; are ?radical? technology. Marco Solorio muses that they should have called the new 24p Panasonic the SEX900! Geez, despite that fact that it does as much or more as a formerly priced $60,000 24p camera; it?s still no bargain. I can?t get excited about the new Panasonic, it?s still quite pricey, and Content is King(that is what is sexy to me, not tools you use to paint your ?canvas?).
My point was that to try and make you own camera, without the huge financial resources alone, make it unfeasible. But then you bring in the fact that there are others, in particular, that ?axis of evil?; they have both the financial resources and the developmental machine, technical knowledge, sophisticated manufacturing processes for miniaturization of all components; it?s a losing battle, IMO. But the time you put it together, some big gun company will already have something that the market finds more desirable, or something will be made ready for introduction within 6-12months that will invariably be better?they will make your system seem ponderous, lacking in capability in comparison.
Only really ?radical? imaging chip I can think of, at least it is significantly different from others, is the Foveon chip designed by an Cal Tech graduate?I believe. Amazing that it ever got built, by a lesser player in the imaging field, the Sigma lens company. I don?t know what company is manufacturing the Foveon chip for Sigma, but I have never thought Sigma lens to be of top-notch quality, just adequate. You can read the review of the Sigma D9 at this link.
Then for comparison you can read about the 14M pixel Kodak digicam for $5k, and the Canon 1Ds which both use CMOS imaging chips, yet there is a big difference in the way they perform. Canon causes a nosebleed at $8k, but it does great low light photography, has less luminous aliasing, and has greater dynamic range. I see that JVC camcorders specs state 400%, or in the case of the 5000 series 600% dynamic range. Not sure that has any real meaning to me?since there is no standardized reporting method from various camcorder manufacturers. Now if you have the clout and money to visit with the CMOS manufacturers such that you can get the kind of performance from you purchased CMOS chips to match or exceed (remember the Foveon chip renders the most accurate colors) that in the latest Canon, then you?ll have something better than what is currently on the market that a resolution freak like Scott Billips will approve of. I think part of the problem is that you have gone to see those examples shown on Billips site, with the $1M 35mm Kodak film camera razor sharp, the 4:2:2 SD images look pixelated, down to DV25 which looks worse. But they are STILL images magnified to the extreme. Take your average smaller Sundance Festival screen or nation wide multiplex theatre; they are even smaller than the screen at the LA Film School where they are hosting the HD Festival next month. You can probably tell the difference since you are in the business and have become sensitized to the lack of quality in 4:1:1(but you haven?t seen a Sony DSR-500 movie transfered to film or better image projected, after quality production, on a regular sized screen yet, have you???). The average theatre patron will not notice that much of a difference. Matrix sequels as well as other big movies are now being transferred for IMAX presentation, yet they were filmed for normal multiplex theatres, i.e. they lack the IMAX resolution, yet these types of movies are probably responsible for IMAX finally turning a profit (that and the fact that first run movies are at $8 or more, and IMAX is now at $11 a ticket, when it used to be double the price). Give me Canon 11M pixel performance 3 CMOS chip camcorder, with Foveon 3 color pixle array and Fuji SuperCCD?s color accuracy---very important to me; then you approach 35mm film, and you have a winner of a homemade HD camcorder. Oh, can you please make it for 1/2 the cost of the Panasonic SEX900, maybe Marco will call it the Extreme XXX900HD :)
Seriously Ed, life is short; do something more constructive with your drive/enthusiasm/dreams, Content is King, make the movie you want to make with DV25, or rent uncompressed SD cameras, or buy used. Spend the rest of your funds on other aspects of the movie making process, as the camera is only but the paint brush for your canvas, plenty or other expenses/details to work through, especially the art/the craft. Panavision has the high-end market for near term, the big studios and the like do not have a lock on everything. Make your indie production; surprise us with the quality of that; the next runaway hit "Big Fat Greek Wedding" or something else. Inspire with your craft, do not get mired in the OBSESSION with having the ultimate tool, you a can tell a story, make a vision with lesser tools. Content is King---and while your are at it, did you not say that your project involves shooting in Siberia, then you can contact Tamara Feldman?s agent and get her a part in your movie, yes?
As she is Siberian (part Native American) from ancestors 10,000 years ago?good enough correct? I don?t get excited about the Panasonic SEX900(but for an exotic version of Audrey Hepburn, I can sit there entranced looking at Ms Feldman on the screen?.he, he). Make your movie Ed, forget about the ultimate HD camcorder; making the movie, that is a better mission from God.
HD movie for the 2nd project next year.
Jean, mission from God explained is making "Revivin' Romance" movie by Ed Brown on May 4, 2003 at 5:51:29 pm
Dear Jean,
you asked what is "mission from god?"
I'm 60. On bad days I feel like 42.My true religion is sailing.Every sailor's big dream is to sail into stars reflecting off mirror waters and make love with his beautiful first mate. Preferably on a cushioned deck.
The challenge is finding a beautiful first sailing mate. Beaches of the world are littered with beautiful women. But few want to get their pretty asses wet sailing.
So here is how I got the idea for my movie plot and why it is a "mission from god."
Actually, I won't tell you. Much. That's the movie. Just: three years ago, I had just broke up with this snobby, but skilled charmer, who went sailing with me on first date and then for three years would not, who critizied me for being a barbarian who spoke uneducated English, claimed the only thing I did right was make her deliriously happy SO I prayed for Divine Intervention for a woman who would sail and not critize my English. Next hour, I accitently researching St. George on internet met this PHD profesor, who jokingly invited me sailing on the Ob Sea: "Siberia bee must exotic fur Amerikan."
I went.
She could sail into the wind, it is called "beating," very tricky like very good editing, and she could play every wind shift, every wave slap -- my dream woman. "Tanya" thought I was a "primative," not rich, old, and a hell a lot of fun. Besides, as a "primative" building contractor I fixed up her condo and was "useful" and great with her kid.But: "you can good join bodies, but not join lives, not join dreams."
I returned to USA to plot.
The challenge was to get this beautiful natural sailor under life time contract. Tricky since she lived 11 time zones away...
Siberia and quite happy there with friends and family and skiing, and good career.And her kid she'd lose to her rich banker ex husband if she went to America.
Since my strength is story teller, Content Creator, I wrote her
scene by scene day by day, week by week, a story how this Sailor
like me returns to Siberia and shows this snobby professor like her that he has PhD in Love and knows how to keep Romance alive forever. So they marry. End of the fictional Act 2.
Real life Act 2 was I welcomed back to Siberia for "negoiations and examintions if professor award sailor candidate PhD in Love."
Too much, I bore you. Back to movie. A year later, I am in hosiptal in Detroit. Almost died from internal bleeding from Advil causing internal bleeding. I look out window. Snow coming down. I am broke. But confronting death make me think about legacy: great roofs,(by day I am very practical roofing contactor, not dreamer) my PhD. microbiology son researching AID vaccine --- no. I have insight on oldest human problem: worse than wars, disease --- it is how do men and women after initial thrill of sex ---keep romance alive?
Then my "little voice, my inner little voice of wisdom" tells me,
"That is your mission from God. Tell that story. Make that movie.
Call that Church you bid 6 months before, sell the roof. Buy a camera. Go to Wayne State University, smart up and make that movie."
I call, check out of hospital,write Church an inspired letter for their funding, and 5 hours later that same day I have $30,000 Contract.
Next day I register to go back to college after 30 years, cream my kid classmates, and reading a magazine at media department buy a JVC GYDV500 camera.
HD was not in magizines then.
Now reading Billips, I think he is right:4:1:1 is not for serious screen. Could make DVDs.
Writing this, I hear my little voice again chatting: "sell more
church roofs. Rewrite that script. Content is King. Be ready to
go to Siberia this winter. If you shot some scenes on JVC DV500 as trailers, you could get funding. Gmasonmd is right make movie now. You started 2 years ago. Quite wasting time. Hell, shoot Grosse Pointe scenes now. At least, start capuring images of flowers and trees budding as Spring time out takes."
But I lust for HD cam. Damn "little voice" is chatting again, "polish that script, and the camera will come."
Jean, are you not glad you asked?
Ed
PS see Shear email in next post. Thanks for your savy suggestions.Also CMOS info is there. Trying to connect dots I think that $15,000 CMOS HD cam is feasible.
thanksagain.
